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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey guys, I had made an intro/"new member" post in that section a few days ago, and promised a follow up thread with info and pics of what we've been up to with a customers TT IS-F. Following is a detailed description of what we found and then what we did to cure the issues(all of which is forcing us to consider producing a quality turbo kit for the IS-F community).

When we received the car from the customer, he had dyno sheets showing his current power level of 459whp. He informed us the car should be making 520whp according to what he was told/sold when he bought his TT kit and asked us to see if we can figure out what the issue is. After looking the car over nothing apparent was the cause of the lack of power, but we did see some things we didn't agree with as far as the kit and the install is concerned. The short list of those items are:

- No boost control(other then wastegate spring) and the size of vacuum line(too small) run from the engine bay to the back of the car where the remote turbos/wastegates are sitting. Along with the size, it had been "T'd" so many times(for twin wastegates and going to the Methanol injection system in the trunk), the manifold pressure needed to control the many items just doesn't seem to be there.

- Turbo oil return lines/fittings were leaking oil.

- Oil return system was less then ideal. An oil catch tank and scavenge pump would have been the return system of choice IMO. What is there is a line off the bottom of each turbo going to a "T" and a single line continues all the way to the engine bay where a pump is trying to pull the fluid back to the engine. At that point it is just dumped into the valve cover breather instead of the oil pan or some other location more suitable. Also plumbing it to the valve cover breather effectively plugs the "breathing" ability of that valve cover.

The most blatant issue with the oil return system however was the manner in which the pump had been wired in. While driving the pump turned off and the turbo's began to smoke and puke oil out the back of the car(car was shut of instantly). What we found to be the reason for this is "T taps" were used and the pump was cutting in and out with any kind of bump or wiggle of the wires. An issue like that can/will not only kill your turbo's but can cause oil to enter your engine/combustion chamber, which leads to detonation and possible engine failure. We of course rewired and soldered all of the wiring.

*We have videos of this as proof.

- As far as we can tell, there is no "tune" in this car other then the methanol injection kit. This just is not the way to do it. When we put the car on the dyno after our mods(which will come later in this post), the first base run of how the car was running as delivered to the customer revealed significant detonation/knock in the midrange of the power curve and the run was aborted.

- The methanol injection kits progressive controller begins working at 0psi by pulsing the pump, but the progressive controller does not turn on the pump fully until 8psi is reached. Thus at the 3psi the car was running, the pump never turned on 100%, it was only pulsing. On top of that, the jet they used was too small and should have been larger.

- On the topic of wiring, the Tein coilover EDFC that was installed at the same time as the turbo kit was also wire tapped and quite working on the customer. Again we rewired and soldered everything.

- The bumper and exhaust tips on this car were/are flopping around as the bumper is either torn or burnt(below the tips on the drivers side) and the tips are attached to the loose/broken bumper.

- Regarding the design of the kit, it's put together reasonably well, however we fundamentally do not agree with the "remote mount" design in general. Other then remote mount, the charge piping is running directly along side of the exhaust/manifold secondaries if you will, which isn't great for air temps pre intercooler.

Now on to what we did to rectify the issues(other then what I've already covered above).

- Regarding the boost control we added an electronic boost controller(Apex-i AVCR) and mounted the boost solenoid in the trunk in order to keep the vacuum line lengths to a minimum. The one vacuum line that was used for multiple items is now solely used for the methanol injection kit. We also replaced the tiny jet with one more suitable for the power level the car is at.

- Fixed the oil leaks by simply taking it all apart and reinstalling properly.

- Regarding the oil return system all we have done so far is rewire it in order make sure it works constantly. It will probably be an item we will try to get the customer let us redesign entirely but his initial goal was to get his car running at the levels he expected in the first place.

- Now on to the tuning side of things. Along with our good friends at AEM we worked to wire in an AEM FI/C and get it running without any check engine lights and able to tune fuel and timing maps. We have all the pin outs mapped and ready for other customers when the need arises.

*Special mods are need to make an AEM FI/C to work properly on an IS-F. Please contact us if you are interested in purchasing or having us install one for you.

What came to us as an IS-F running 459whp in a non satisfactory condition is now a 516whp car running reasonably well. We were shooting to go for more but it seems at this point we have reached the limits of the stock fuel system. We are in the process of coming up with a solution for this and hope to go for more power in due time.

Between Andy and I we will post pics and dyno charts in the following posts.
 

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Here is the pic of the oil return line



This is a picture of the T-tap used to poorly wire the oil return pump.



This is a Pic of the "relay mount" for that same pump



Here is the 4 feet of wiring they had wrapped up in that harness



Here is the wiring all spread out



And here is my fix of the wiring



A few pics of us starting to install the AEM FIC8, this is before we mounted it under the dash.





This is Horsepower and Torque



The green is right when he got the car back, purple is the first run the day we tuned it, then the red run was getting the boost set right and tuning the car.

 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
so are saying that u can tune our IS-F's?
Yes we can.

Without tuning this car for our customer(and fixing the issues), we are not sure how long his motor would have lasted.

please keep us posted with all of this. I am sure there are several people wanting a true turbo with engine mngmt.
Will do for sure. At this point we are sure we want to design a quality kit for the IS-F, but we need a donor car to build it on. We could possibly ask our customer to use his car for this, but it may be better to start on a relatively "stock" car in order to make sure of fitment and to write a complete instruction manual from A to Z.


BTW, Andy forgot to post the dyno charts, he'll get those up soon.
 

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Yes we can.

Without tuning this car for our customer(and fixing the issues), we are not sure how long his motor would have lasted.



Will do for sure. At this point we are sure we want to design a quality kit for the IS-F, but we need a donor car to build it on. We could possibly ask our customer to use his car for this, but it may be better to start on a relatively "stock" car in order to make sure of fitment and to write a complete instruction manual from A to Z.


BTW, Andy forgot to post the dyno charts, he'll get those up soon.
I would if you were located in Texas. N. dallas preferablly
 

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Have you guys checked to see if the tune is still working after the car has been driven 200miles?

How much Psi made 516whp?

And thanks for the post!!! Im in the development process of my Single Turbo kit and this info might come in had. Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Have you guys checked to see if the tune is still working after the car has been driven 200miles?

How much Psi made 516whp?

And thanks for the post!!! Im in the development process of my Single Turbo kit and this info might come in had. Thanks again.

The car was tuned on Thursday of this last week and we'll be getting the car back in the next day or two to look everything over(We'll be monitoring the tune as time and miles pass as well).

5psi (it's in the second dyno chart above).
 

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Dear elite i will give you my donor car for the project, i was planning on driving to milwaukee for turkey day to visit my folks. i could drive there give you my car and fly to milwaukee. let me know!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Dear elite i will give you my donor car for the project, i was planning on driving to milwaukee for turkey day to visit my folks. i could drive there give you my car and fly to milwaukee. let me know!
You have a PM.


Edited: We are hoping to become a board sponsor in order to better serve the community, until we get that set up, we cannot publicly advertise what we are up to.
 

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Someone got sold some snake oil when he bought this kit. It is unprofessional in my opinion to sell a turbo kit for $15k without proper tuning done and a half ass install. Nice that you guys helped this guy out.
 

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:)... I wish I could donate mine... but its a daily driver....

I will if ya can get me a loaner...
 

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Between Andy and I we will post pics and dyno charts in the following posts.


Hello Andy,


I am interested in the A/F mixture and the abrupt increase in Power output at the tail of the graph. I was hoping you could shed some light on the above for my own personal curiosity?


Thank you sir, have a great day!

Chris Macellaro :)
 

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Hello Andy,


I am interested in the A/F mixture and the abrupt increase in Power output at the tail of the graph. I was hoping you could shed some light on the above for my own personal curiosity?


Thank you sir, have a great day!

Chris Macellaro :)
Chris,

Instead of trying to explain it, here is the dyno chart with the A/F on it.
You can see that in the area the power is down the A/F is about 10.0 This is because we have limited control of the factory fuel system. We will be adding larger injectors which will give us more control with the FIC, as I'm sure you know how the FIC works.
 

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Chris,

Instead of trying to explain it, here is the dyno chart with the A/F on it.
You can see that in the area the power is down the A/F is about 10.0 This is because we have limited control of the factory fuel system. We will be adding larger injectors which will give us more control with the FIC, as I'm sure you know how the FIC works.
Wouldn't the fact that the car is running rich mean that the stock fuel system could handle more air?
Also, a 10.0 A/F is what the stock Kit ran without a piggy back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Wouldn't the fact that the car is running rich mean that the stock fuel system could handle more air?
Yes, the fuel system technically could handle more air, but the tuning system doesn't have the ability to control the stock injectors any further. There is a limited percentage change you can do with the FI/C piggyback on the car and we hit the limit, thus the relatively choppy A/F ratio. What you see as the final result is an improvement over the way it was running/tuned when we got the car. Also between the stock direct injection, stock port injectors, and the after market methanol kit, it's not that easy to coordinate them all together.


Also, a 10.0 A/F is what the stock Kit ran without a piggy back.
Not exactly(was lean in spots and rich in spots), but I'll see if I can grab some A/F charts of how the car was running/tuned from the get go. Also, you have to remember fuel is not the only thing that was tuned, timing is also changed and then you have the methanol injection kit over the top of all of it(which as mentioned before is not running as intended due to progressive controller controlling it).
 

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Great write up guys and glad you are heading in the right direction. So it is safe to assume that the DC on the stock injectors was maxed correct? I am not sure how the secondary port injectors are mapped in the control system but if they are pure feedback driven could they not be just augmented and let the feedback loop do its job? Or are they open loop for WOT enrichment?


The AEM is a good standalone for static maps but is there a concern over variations in elevation, air density and temperature? I have not kept up with the standalone features that are out there, but for a DD in CO these are the problems we have with standalones and the potential to drive from 5000 ft to 10000 feet in one day and keep mixture correct.

Fig
Fig
 

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Great write up guys and glad you are heading in the right direction. So it is safe to assume that the DC on the stock injectors was maxed correct? I am not sure how the secondary port injectors are mapped in the control system but if they are pure feedback driven could they not be just augmented and let the feedback loop do its job? Or are they open loop for WOT enrichment?


The AEM is a good standalone for static maps but is there a concern over variations in elevation, air density and temperature? I have not kept up with the standalone features that are out there, but for a DD in CO these are the problems we have with standalones and the potential to drive from 5000 ft to 10000 feet in one day and keep mixture correct.

Fig
Fig
We are not using the AEM EMS Standalone. We are using the FIC8 which is a piggyback, so the stock ecu will make changes based on elevation, temp, etc.
 
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