[ISFChamp]

I had a customer that just purchased a Brand New M3 6 speed. I asked if I could look at it, and he threw me the keys and said take it for a ride !! I denied at first, but he insisted, so what the hell....

First thing I found was the back end reminds me of a Saab. Once I got inside, the interior is so....blah !!!!!

I start the vehicle and hear the 4.0 V8 quitely through the exhaust. The Clutch does feel nice, not too mushy, but not too firm either.. The shifter has a decent throw, but a little too long for me. Then again, I feel most OEM shifter have a long throw.

I find first, and go around the corner where I know I am not seen. I am going about 5 miles an hour when I floor it.

Thousand-one, thousand-two, oh there it is !! RRM's seem to clime, but not as fast as in a IS-F, and I don't hear that amazing sound when our cars hit 3,200 RPM's. At around 5,000 RPM's, I finally feel good power and am pushed into the back of the seat, I slap second, and then 3rd. By that time I'm on the brakes. The brakes feel fine, but I feel like they were only "good enough" to stop, not like the Brembo brakes.

Car seems like it would be fun to drive if you can keep it in the higher RPM's.
But to pay almost $60k and not have a moonroof, Nav, or any other of the creature functions, No Thanks.

Just my 2 cents.

July 10th I am actually going to meet with STU and MotiveMag and drive the C63 and M3 on the track. I can't wait !!

 

[SuperFreak]

Keep us posted

 

[TomsterF]

I agree with Andy on most of his points. Interior didn't wow me though I did love the exterior. After driving it (which was before I even knew an ISF existed) I didn't feel like I need to plunk down my money right then and there. Shifting was nice but could not compare to the S2000 I owned back in the day. Power delivery did seem like it took a while to kick in unless you're driving constantly at high revs (which is not easy to do in town). Certainly power is there in spades as the M3 ususally turns in slightly faster 0-60 times than the Lexus.

I disagree on the brakes though. Typical BMW perfect feedback. As is the case with the steering.....perfect as always. The fact that the ISF is even in M3's league is amazing, given all the time BMW has had to hone its product.

Which leads to one other comment. In my opinion, the BMW 328 and 335 each run loops around the Lexus IS 250 and 350, respectively. BMW's reputation as a driver's car is so apparent in their 3-Series compared to the lower two IS cars, which feel Camryish in comparison. It's not until one gets to the "M" versus the "F" that Lexus holds its own. Kudos to the separate engineering team that reworked the IS from scratch.

 

[pat.ross]

We have both the F and the 335i. Both are new. My wife drives the 335i hard top conv. I drive the F. I much prefer the F for pure driving pleasure, but Karen's 335i is a "show stopper" with the top down. It is Montego Blue Metalic with light cream interior. The 335i has the Steptronic paddle shifting 6 speed automatic. As far as I am concerned, there is no comparison with the F's 8 speed auto.

 

[TomsterF]

Andy, I was comparing the IS 250 to the BMW 328 and the IS 350 to the BMW 335. In these two comparisons I feel BMW has a huge edge in regards to a pure driving experience. In the ISF versus the M3 comparison, the two cars obviously run neck and neck in every conceivable matchup. Again, very impressive given BMW's time to perfect their product.

 

[ISFChamp]

Again, I was just writing my feeling after driving the M3. I forgot to mention the steering, and I agree, it was perfect. You know what they say about opinions, they are like A**holes, everyone has one

 

[TomsterF]

Again, I was just writing my feeling after driving the M3. I forgot to mention the steering, and I agree, it was perfect. You know what they say about opinions, they are like A**holes, everyone has one

Oh well, at least we've awakened this sleepy little site a bit. The only downside to a limited production vehicle.....limited feedback.

 

[old$parts]

I'm wondering how bias your opinion would be if you were selling the BMW instead of the Lexus!

 

[SMOKE]

Fortunately Lexus "IS" a more superior made vehicle (more wood,features,better quality vehicle and they last longer on the road).For being in business for only 20 years;it's the Germans that are taking a strong look at how the Japanese are making their vehicles and should be concerned.Have you seen how bland the interior of a BMW is? It looks like it's from the late 80's still!! lol

 

[old$parts]

Lets hear from IFS Champ.....Bias or not?

 

[pat.ross]

My son owns a 2001 BMW 330ci. When I bought my wife's 335i conv. he almost insisted that I buy the 100k warantee. I had never bought one before, but he said that by the time she had over 50k miles on her car she would need the extended warantee. That from an owner of a BMW. BTW his 330i has about 135k miles on it and is sitting in the garage with a blown head gasket (or cracked head). Estimated cost to fix $10k

 

[SMOKE]

"Estimated cost to fix $10k"

That's the one major advantage of having a Lexus is that it's built by Toyota and the parts wont be that expensive.Alot of the cost is in the labor, unless you do it yourself.

 

[ISFChamp]

Old$parts. I would have to say I was not being Bias when I wrote that or even when I drove the M3. My father, who actually lives in California has not only a 2003 M5 with ALL Dinan products, but my step mom has a 08 X5 4.8 i Sport loaded to the gills. I love driving both of them !! I guess I was hoping for more out of the M3 that's all.

 

[old$parts]

JUST CHECKING!

 

[PCR]

I test drove an M3 sedan and an F several times over the weekend. Here is my take.

• Engine: both are good; do you want torque or top end (I like the torque-F)
• Trans: Didn't like the M at all. It was way too rubbery. You can put a shorter throw linkage in it, but it would still be rubbery. (F)
• Appearance: Both look stunning (tie)
• Suspension: I thought the F cornered better...flatter, smoother... for the real world. If I were on a race track, maybe the M, but I have to drive on the street (F)
• Ride: Both were very smooth over rough road; didn't beat you up, very composed. (tie)
• Steering: Hands down, the M3 steered like a dream. This thing turns telepathically; unbelievable! (M by a mile)

(If my comments on the suspension, ride and steering seems contradictory; another way to put is that the F's suspension was set up with less fast compression, and more fast rebound (thinner shock oil, and thicker swaybars) than the M. This makes it more compliant over fast bumps mid corner, but on a smooth road, the M is on rails) IMHO​

• Interior: The M had more room in the back seats, but the F had more comfortable front seats. But from an appearance stand point, the nod goes to the M because you can get wood (instead of the funky silver stuff) (M by a hair)
• Features: You can option both cars with the same features, except the F has a back up camera (F by a hair)
• Misc: The F has a spare! I've had my BMW for over 7 yrs. I've used mine 3 times. Glad I had it, you don't think of it until you NEED it (F)

Value: No matter how you cut it, fitted out the equally, the F is 10K +/- cheaper. And since my money tree burnt to the ground last year, I just don't think I would pay an extra 10K for a car that steers better: and for God sakes! 1K for a sun roof? Both dealers were willing to deal (end of the month).

If they were both the exact same price, maybe the M when the DSG comes out. But they're not, so I would give a clear nod to the F.

My objectivity? I'm so objective, I don't own either cars...yet.

YMMV

 

[TomsterF]

Excellent observations, PCR. I would tend to agree with you on every point. For the record though, most mags and videos I've seen give the M the advantage on suspension, particularly on rough roads where the F tends to dance around a bit more. As you said, perhaps the advantage to the M is more clear on a race track and the F wins out for everyday driving.

The only area you did not compare would be braking, where I gave the M the nod. I've always loved the feel of BMW brakes. The F, like most manufacturers, mistake good stopping power with good brakes. Of course that is the purpose of brakes but feel when applying the brakes is what separates the great from the not-so-great. The F is a little too touchy in comparison.

I think many of the readers will disagree with your opinion on the looks of the interior. My initial opinion when comparing was that the M looked better. The F is a little too sparse, particularly the passenger side where literally nothing is happening. As the weeks have gone by I am appreciating the interior more and more though. Nice little touches that at first might go unnoticed. Unfortunately both look like crap in comparison to the 3rd car on my list at the time, the Jaguar XF......whoa.

 

[Msedanman]

Old$parts. I would have to say I was not being Bias when I wrote that or even when I drove the M3. My father, who actually lives in California has not only a 2003 M5 with ALL Dinan products, but my step mom has a 08 X5 4.8 i Sport loaded to the gills. I love driving both of them !! I guess I was hoping for more out of the M3 that's all.

Fair enough for me.......I believe that you would give kudos where due.

C.

 

[ISFChamp]

Msedanman,

I am a true car enthusiast !! I'm not one thats loyal to a certain brand, even if I work for that car company. For the record, I own 2 diffrent brands of vehicles personally between my wifes car, my daily driver, and the "toy"...
I can say when I'm ready to retire the daily driver, there are several good candidates I am going to look at across the board.

I am really looking to July 10th when I bring my IS-F "demo" to the Joliet Autobahn Race Track again and get a chance to drive the M3, and C63 !!!!

 

[Msedanman]

Msedanman,

I am a true car enthusiast !! I'm not one thats loyal to a certain brand, even if I work for that car company. For the record, I own 2 diffrent brands of vehicles personally between my wifes car, my daily driver, and the "toy"...
I can say when I'm ready to retire the daily driver, there are several good candidates I am going to look at across the board.

I am really looking to July 10th when I bring my IS-F "demo" to the Joliet Autobahn Race Track again and get a chance to drive the M3, and C63 !!!!

That comparo I look forward to....Keep us up on it please.

Colin.

 

[old$parts]

Information from:

http://www.hypertuned.net/vehicles83.htm

2008 Lexus ISF

0-60 mph.4.2 sec. 1/4 mile ET. @ mph.12.7 sec. @ 114 mph. Top Speed172 mph. Roadholding0.92 g. | 300-ft.-dia. skidpad Braking 70-0 mph.159 ft. Horsepower416 bhp. @ 6600 rpm. Torque371 lb-ft. @ 5200 rpm. EngineDOHC 32-valve CylindersV8 Displacement303 cu. in. (4969 cc) Engine Locationfront engine Aspirationnatural Transmission8-speed automatic w/ manumatic shifting Drive Wheelrear wheel drive Curb Weight3800 lbs. lb. per bhp.9.1 lbs./hp. Base Price$60000


2008 BMW M3

0-60 mph.4.3 sec. 1/4 mile ET. @ mph.12.8 sec. @ 113 mph. Top Speed161 mph. Roadholding0.94 g. | 300-ft.-dia. skidpad Braking 70-0 mph.156 ft. Horsepower414 bhp. @ 8300 rpm. Torque295 lb-ft. @ 3900 rpm. EngineDOHC 32-valve CylindersV8 Displacement244 cu. in. (3999 cc) Engine Locationfront engine Aspirationnatural Transmission6-speed manual Drive Wheelrear wheel drive Curb Weight3571 lbs. lb. per bhp.8.6 lbs./hp. Base Price$62000

2008 Audi RS4

0-60 mph.4.6 sec. 1/4 mile ET. @ mph.13.1 sec. @ 108 mph. Top Speed163 mph. Roadholding0.88 g. | 150-ft.-dia. skidpad Braking 70-0 mph.157 ft. Horsepower420 bhp. @ 7800 rpm. Torque317 lb-ft. @ 6000 rpm. EngineDOHC 32-valve CylindersV8 Displacement254 cu. in. (4163 cc) Engine Locationfront engine Aspirationnatural Transmission6-speed manual Drive Wheel4-wheel drive Curb Weight3814 lbs. lb. per bhp.9.0 lbs./hp. Base Price$69785


2008 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG

0-60 mph.3.9 sec. 1/4 mile ET. @ mph.12.3 sec. @ 116 mph. Top Speed153 mph. Roadholding0.88 g. | 150-ft.-dia. skidpad Braking 70-0 mph.155 ft. Horsepower451 bhp. @ 6800 rpm. Torque443 lb-ft. @ 5000 rpm. EngineDOHC 32-valves CylindersV8 Displacement379 cu. in. (6208 cc) Engine Locationfront engine Aspirationnatural Transmission7-speed automatic w/ manumatic shift Drive Wheelrear wheel drive Curb Weight4034 lbs. lb. per bhp.8.9 lbs./hp. Base Price$63000

WOW!

old$parts