Just ordered K&N Intake + Borla Catback

15224 Views 51 Replies 21 Participants Last post by oarngemig, Aug 14, 2009

phlabrasca

Discussion Starter · Jul 16, 2009 (Edited)

I decided to try this combo since everybody has been using Joe-Z.

K&N was $265 shipped and I forget what the catback was $1300 or so.

Update:

Installed the K&N intake... Sounds MUCH better... Sounds like a V8 should. You can start hearing the difference at roughly 2k rpm and full throttle it really does sound like a race car. The car no longer sounds like chewbacca when accelerating. Did not really feel the difference however that might of been because I was distracted with the sound which was LOUD.

Got the Borla cat back installed today. It sounds beastly. I love it. There is drone, but that's expected on an aftermarket exhaust. The car turns heads when I go over 2k rpm, every time.

At full throttle there is absolutely no comparison from stock to aftermarket. It is LOUD. It idles slightly louder.

It was definitely worth it for the sound alone, it sounds good and can get really loud. HOWEVER, Borla is known for making poorly fitted exhausts, and I was the recipient of one... The installer basically told me Borla f'd it up and if I hear rattling to come back and he's going to try to work with it. He said the exhaust might start rattling when it warms up, and it did. He said some guy had one put on his Mustang a week ago and same thing happened.

...So I'll have to go back which I really hate doing. I'll get sound clip up / vid tomorrow.

21 - 40 of 52 Posts

suprajones

· #21 · Jul 23, 2009

pootie said:
How'd the dyno session go? Did you get a before and after of just the intake gains? I'm still stuck on the fence on whether or not I should get it.

UMM,,yeaaaaa, about the before and after dyno,,,,,
I could not wait for the dyno guy to come off of vacation + I was starring at a big beautiful Joe Z exhaust in a box under my carport = no K&N only #'s,,,sorry.
I can tell you that I physically felt the power gain immediatly. I have read in other threads that the ECU takes "###" miles to re-calaborate,,,,I don't think it does. Drove the car for 2 weeks w/ only K&N mod; no chk engine lights,,,no noises, no rattles, no complaints at all. Power was consistant from time of install till now (apx 300 miles later).
If I had it to do all over, I would jump on the K&N again and again. The rumor of K&N oil degrading the MAF sensor is something I have never experienced (had them in 3 supras (84/86.5/97) and 2 ford trucks).
I say find the best price,,,,reserve 1.5 hours to install,,,,,reserve ample time to drive it like you stole it!

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phlabrasca

Discussion Starter · #22 · Jul 24, 2009

Installed the K&N intake... Sounds MUCH better... Sounds like a V8 should. You can start hearing the difference at roughly 2k rpm and full throttle it really does sound like a race car. The car no longer sounds like chewbacca when accelerating. Did not really feel the difference however that might of been because I was distracted with the sound which was LOUD.

I'll get a vid up when I get time.

Borla catback ships out Monday and should arrive Wednesday.

IS-F-I-DID

· #23 · Jul 27, 2009

lowrider said:
^^^^Folks have run Dynos on the exhaust and intake, and the results are positive, and the increases can be felt. The cat back exhausts are not catless. They remove the secondary cats from the system, but leave the primaries untouched.

Lou

Any numbers? Specifically for intake? Might the F-Sport intake be just as good if not better than K&N?

lowrider

· #24 · Jul 27, 2009

^^^^There is no F-Sport intake available for the F. The intake choices are the SRT, which has been a disaster, and is not recommended by anyone. The K&N and the JoeZ, both of which now seem to have followers. The JoeZ guys, seem to believe that the dyno numbers posted by the the K&N might not be applicable to the street due to heat soak.

Lou

phlabrasca

Discussion Starter · #25 · Jul 31, 2009

Got the Borla cat back installed today. It sounds beastly. I love it. There is drone, but that's expected on an aftermarket exhaust.

It was definitely worth it for the sound alone, it sounds good and can get really loud. HOWEVER, Borla is known for making poorly fitted exhausts, and I was the recipient of one... The installer basically told me Borla f'd it up and if I hear rattling to come back and he's going to try to work with it. He said the exhaust might start rattling when it warms up, and it did. He said some guy had one put on his Mustang a week ago and same thing happened.

...So I'll have to go back which I really hate doing. I'll get sound clip up / vid tomorrow.e

Dave

· #26 · Jul 31, 2009

phlabrasca said:
Got the Borla cat back installed today. It sounds beastly. I love it. There is drone, but that's expected on an aftermarket exhaust.

It was definitely worth it for the sound alone, it sounds good and can get really loud. HOWEVER, Borla is known for making poorly fitted exhausts, and I was the recipient of one... The installer basically told me Borla f'd it up and if I hear rattling to come back and he's going to try to work with it. He said the exhaust might start rattling when it warms up, and it did. He said some guy had one put on his Mustang a week ago and same thing happened.

...So I'll have to go back which I really hate doing. I'll get sound clip up / vid tomorrow.e

I had the same issue with Borla on my 350. I had to trim away about 8 inches of heat shield and physically bend one of the structure brackets to make it fit. It fits perfect now.

phlabrasca

Discussion Starter · #27 · Jul 31, 2009

I was screwing around tonight... Not sure if I'm happy with the results.

1. The drone can get so loud at one point it will rattle some of the interiors.
2. I can no longer chirp the tires from 1st to 2nd?
3. I couldn't even pass a BMW 750 today from 60mph to 120? Both full throttle and I was simply maintaining my distance with him?

Starting to think I have not benefited performance wise... I might put it on a Dyno tomorrow if I can find one...

Supraman16

· #28 · Jul 31, 2009

Check to make sure you don't have any exhaust leaks.

oarngemig

· #29 · Jul 31, 2009

phlabrasca said:
I was screwing around tonight... Not sure if I'm happy with the results.

1. The drone can get so loud at one point it will rattle some of the interiors.
2. I can no longer chirp the tires from 1st to 2nd?
3. I couldn't even pass a BMW 750 today from 60mph to 120? Both full throttle and I was simply maintaining my distance with him?

Starting to think I have not benefited performance wise... I might put it on a Dyno tomorrow if I can find one...

For my experience with Borla cat back/ JoeZ intake combo:
1. Drone is bearable. Fortunately not to the point of rattling the interior.
2. It's opposite in my case, the tire chirp is now longer.
3. I'm surprised at what you said about your experience with the 750.

Wish you could do a before and after scenario with the dyno.

How about the drone on the Joe Z exhaust, any comments?

The_Ghost

· #30 · Aug 3, 2009 (Edited)

On the axle-back Borla system. I had no issues with leaks or fitment issues. The hardest part was putting the mufflers into the stock hangers. Nothing is close anywhere to touching the body or heat shields anywhere. The stock exhaust was much "bigger" and heavier and when it got to the Y, before the split to the mufflers, it was pancaked to the point where I was surprised and looked extremely restricted, to me..... I'm sure their is a method to Lexus madness on it, but then again, I'm sure it lost a bit of torque and increased a few HP on the top end of the rpm range. Tradeoff, but sounds very nice... --I kept the factory exhaust and worse case scenario, I can always slap it back on.. (not planning on doing it, as the Borla makes it sound more like a V-8. --

There was a damper on the stock exhaust on the left side with a rubber gromet *to help keep vibration down*,, but the Borla sounds a lot better than factory and I have no rattles at any RPM. maybe I got lucky when we installed it. Just the good ol' sound of Borla. Drone is minimal... and only around 2k rpm -- (I prefer Magnaflow), but since they don't make exhaust yet,, I decided on Borla and have had good luck with them in the past.
Make sure you use an air wrench *tools*, and torque them down (clamps on the pipe and main pipe), to specifications. It's possibly you have a small leak...

Again, only issue was having to have two of us install the mufflers as the hangers and rubber gromets were being a pain in the rear... be sure and use a lubricant on the rubber inserts and also the hangar tips.. (future reference)..

I'm going to dyno mine next week and see what it's putting down. It will be with the factory weight and of course under load for more accurate reading's. -- I wish I could have dyno'd it before, but I'm doing it before the K&N intake that's sitting on my shelf in the garage. I'm curious if the intake is really helping. (BESIDES THE SOUND)... sometimes sound can be misleading... Regards, LL

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caymandiver75

· #31 · Aug 3, 2009

phlabrasca the problem isn't your new exhaust it's that K&N intake. Get that thing off the car and you'll be happy once again IMHO.

suprajones

· #32 · Aug 3, 2009

caymandiver75 said:
phlabrasca the problem isn't your new exhaust it's that K&N intake. Get that thing off the car and you'll be happy once again IMHO.

Why do you say this? Personnal experience?

caymandiver75

· #33 · Aug 3, 2009

suprajones said:
Why do you say this? Personnal experience?

Have yet to see a 2IS with an open filter in the engine bay outperform the stock intake in real world driving or at the drag strip. Check out all the top performing 2IS cars on dragtimes.com and you will see the trend.

...and yes I'm aware that K&N has that little divider wall that is supposed to limit the amount of hot engine bay air. Fact is it still draws in warmer air, Fact is this engine is not gasping for air as the factory intake provides more than enough for the hp level, fact of potential issues with the MAF down the road aren't good either.

Buy an intake like this if you want more sound and care less about true performance.

LexISGuy

· #34 · Aug 4, 2009

caymandiver75 said:
Have yet to see a 2IS with an open filter in the engine bay outperform the stock intake in real world driving or at the drag strip. Check out all the top performing 2IS cars on dragtimes.com and you will see the trend.

...and yes I'm aware that K&N has that little divider wall that is supposed to limit the amount of hot engine bay air. Fact is it still draws in warmer air, Fact is this engine is not gasping for air as the factory intake provides more than enough for the hp level, fact of potential issues with the MAF down the road aren't good either.

Buy an intake like this if you want more sound and care less about true performance.

James thats a good argument, to much warm air going into the open intake.

phlabrasca

Discussion Starter · #35 · Aug 4, 2009 (Edited)

Toyota is reinstalling the stock intake for me tomorrow. The installer is modifying my exhaust to make it fit tomorrow as well.

I e-mailed K&N regarding a refund for the product. It sounds awesome but the horsepower claims are exaggerated and it has not benefited me in any way.

There could be many factors including a poor install. I'm just not willing to do testing. Dyno runs in my area cost $100. I'm not paying nearly 50% of the cost of the intake to determine the power gain/loss.

My suggestions to others wanting exhaust/intake: Do not waste your time. If you want an exhaust, go with Joe-Z. I've heard zero complaints about fitting issues.

suprajones

· #36 · Aug 4, 2009

Interesting information/comments about the K&N and open air boxes in general.
Cayman,
I looked at dragtimes and see what you mean by no one running the open air set-up. But it seems that if no one is using them than were does the comparison come from? Are folks just not posting the information when using an open air filter?

phlabrasca,
Why are you dumping the K&N? Is it due to the lack of chirp from 2nd to 3rd?

I have the K&N + JOE Z exhaust set up and could not be more pleased. I have done 2 dyno sesions(stock vs. intake+exhaust) and the #'s are nothing to brag about. With out proper break-in I have seen a 16rwhp gain and 20rwtq gain. Consider in SC the summer temp hovers around 90-95 and humidity is 90% consistantly. I feel sure the runs were done properly since I followed JOE Z's advice to a "T".

Guess my mind frame is that I agree K&N's claims are bloated but it seems some folks are unhappy/bashing the K&N set up with no real proof of issues. I completly understand the theory behind heat-soak in "real world" applications. It seems proof of heat soak would be through drag times under consistant conditions comparing open filters to the factory air box, and I have yet to see this.

I must say that I am by no means a "K&N poster boy" or die-hard, just have had good experiences with thier product. I would say the same things and have the same questions of JOE Z products if the roles were reversed.
If factual evidence arises that the K&N is bad or decreases power it will find it's way off my car immediatly, as goes for any aftermarket product I install.

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caymandiver75

· #37 · Aug 4, 2009 (Edited)

suprajones, dyno's don't always tell the truth (especially with intakes) and can sometimes mislead as I feel has happened here. Maybe what you need to do is a few pulls against another IS-F with the stock or joez intake. That should make up your mind. Do a few pulls from the bottom of third gear so the factors of wheel slip or launching techniques are void. Of course make sure fuel level is about the same for both cars and see what you conclude. For even more convincing data, how about doing some pulls later with the stock intake back on the car and compare the differences. If you have access to IAT's that would top things off as you'd know for sure the difference in temps with and without the K&N setup and obviously the cooler the IAT's the more power you'll be making.

And sorry to answer your question: The reason you won't see any open air set-ups posted is because none of them have yielded results worth posting. More of an embarrassment and eye opener IMHO.

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phlabrasca

Discussion Starter · #38 · Aug 4, 2009

...And was smoked once again. This time I lose to a stock 2004 Mustang GT 0-80 :/ Jumped the line faster than me, and continued to get away from me. Sport mode without paddles.

caymandiver75

· #39 · Aug 4, 2009

phlabrasca said:
...And was smoked once again. This time I lose to a stock 2004 Mustang GT 0-80 :/ Jumped the line faster than me, and continued to get away from me. Sport mode without paddles.

That should never happen unless the Mustang was spraying or has FI.

phlabrasca

Discussion Starter · #40 · Aug 4, 2009

I think something is wrong with the car. In automatic it will sometimes lag in 2nd gear switching to 3rd and just rev high before it switches to 3rd. Extremely frustrated right now because I cannot isolate the problem....

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