Fair Price for yet another person!

12698 Views 42 Replies 17 Participants Last post by micaISF, Jan 5, 2009

drdoug75

Discussion Starter · Dec 3, 2008

Hey everyone! Let me say I am new to the forum but find this so helpful. I am currently looking to buy an ISF but have to admit I don't really have a ton of experience buying cars. I am currently in Sacramento, CA. I have read through the rather large debate on paying invoice vs msrtp etc etc how to pay for car washes etc....but no one really says what invoice is for this car? Basically I have no problem but would like a FAIR price....It seems to me that fair is not MSRTP for this car? At least from what I read.... I drove one at my lexus dealership they must have 6 or 7 of them for their "December sales event" all are at MSRTP about 61800 with options.
Ok now for some help from the wise ones!!! I currently have a 2001 Corvette coupe ~65k in good condition that I owe about 10g on. Ideally I would get the isf and trade in the corvette. Blue book low trade is about 14k. My plan is to finance with a bank and that should not be a problem.

OK so if you were me???
SHould I walk into the Sac dealer and offer x amount? Aka what is fair?
Should I talk with the nice vendor at McGrath in Chicago get his good price and have him ship it to me? Cross my fingers and try to sell my car on ebay or something?

Any advice would be appreciated...It looked like the vendor from Mcgrath offered 3G over invoice sounds great but I have no idea what that actually is???!!!

On cars.com an isf with 900 miles came up at parkplace lexus in texas for 51k Which sounds pretty good at the moment....

Please HELP!!!!!!!!!!! I love this car but just don't want to get taken. I am not saying salesman are all evil or out for my money...but educate me what is fair????
Thanks

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fleadog99

· #2 · Dec 3, 2008

I would not get the one from PArk Place Lexus, BAD dealership, also it is prob. a tester car. People prob. put that car through its paces on test drives. If you can't see the car, I would not purchase one. I would bring the deals you have into the dealership locally and see if they can match, at least they see you are not low balling them.

ISFChamp

· #3 · Dec 3, 2008

Fleadog sounds like you have had some bad past experience. Thousands of people buy cars site unseen all the time. If you are dealing with a trusted dealership, then you should be fine. Look for a dealership that has been awarded "Elite of Lexus".

Elite of Lexus dealers are chosen based on:

Customer feedback from surveys rating owner satisfaction, sales and service as extremely exceptional.
Dealership exceeding rigorous Lexus operational and certification standards.

Drdoug75, I sent you a PM.

SuperFreak

· #4 · Dec 3, 2008

drdoug75, the first question is what do you want in your "F"? Figure out the color(s) and options that appeal to you. The second question is, are you going to trade the 'vette in? The second question is important, because if you are going to buy out of state, how will you get the trade to the dealer that you buy from? Shipping cars back-and forth will add to the bottom line of what you pay.

You sound like you have done your homework, so what do you want to pay? I know that it sounds like a stupid question, but when you have dealers selling demos that are ultra cheap, do you want one of those, or one with 10 miles on the odometer?

I am sure that a dealer worth his salt will be happy to show you the invoice on the car that you want, and let you make an offer. The invoice prices will vary by the equipment, and when the car was shipped by Lexus to the dealer. Cars shipped earlier in the build cycle will have a lower invoice that cars shipped later, but not by much.

Hope this helps, and let me know if you need anything else

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SuperFreak

· #5 · Dec 3, 2008

FYI -The one at Park Place is a used, titled car.

BigMikeISF

· #6 · Dec 3, 2008

fleadog99 said:
I would not get the one from PArk Place Lexus, BAD dealership, also it is prob. a tester car. People prob. put that car through its paces on test drives. If you can't see the car, I would not purchase one. I would bring the deals you have into the dealership locally and see if they can match, at least they see you are not low balling them.

I actually purchased mine from Park Place Plano and had a great buying experience. When I am in town, I service it there as well and have had no problems there either. They have won the Elite of Lexus award nine years in a row and were the first dealership to win the Malcom Baldridge Quality Award. But everyone does have their own experiences and to each his own.

To the original question, I was going to say what SuperFreak and ISFChamp, already said, do you know what you want to pay, are you trading in or personally selling the corvette, are you wanting to buy in or out of state, etc

Good luck, keep us updated and feel free to ask any more questions you might have

drdoug75

Discussion Starter · #7 · Dec 3, 2008

Excellent ---thank you so much for the feedback.
I guess my ideal is a blue/black new ISF. And, yes it would be ideal if I could just trade my corvette in. But everyone keeps talking about "invoice". Assuming I walk into my local lexus of sacramento....Do I ask the question what is the invoice on this car? Is the salesperson going to show me something? Am I then suppose to offer him x dollars over invoice? etc etc....

Again I don't mind people making money. But I don't want to be taken.... It seems like everyone thinks I should pay something over invoice..... But no one tells me what that might be. For example Lexus of sac has a new blue/black on the backlot with ML/Nav package for about 62k.... What is invoice? What is a fair price?

Jeff Taylor

· #8 · Dec 3, 2008

You could try Edmunds.com and get TMV pricing for the car. It is supposed to be a representation of transaction prices in your area (by zipcode).

When I try to use the TMV value when I buy cars, the salesmen always claim the prices are way off. I'm not sure how much truth there is to that.

Good luck,

Jeff
08 Smoky Granite Mica IS-F

SuperFreak

· #9 · Dec 3, 2008

Edmunds is good to get an idea, but they do not include money the dealer pays to Lexus for advertising, which is included on the invoice and varies by region. You pay for the advertising of everything that you buy, but the car business is the only one that I know of that actually shows what this costs.The listed equipment that Edmunds has does not always match what the manufacturer is building, and often times does not include mid-model increases. The best source is the actual invoice with the breakdowns, and as long as your happy with the car, the dealer, and how they treat you, then I know you will love the car. Figure out what you think is fair to offer over the invoice, but be reasonable.

phootdr

· #10 · Dec 4, 2008

drdoug,

First decide if you want a demo or a brand new one. If you want a demo, you probably won't do better than whats been offered around.

If you want a new one, go haggle your ass off. Check out edmunds for the invoice price with the options you want, forget about MRSP and the part that tells you what others in your area have done. The fact that the dealership has six lying around highly works in your favor, especially if it fits your specifications.

Go and offer $500 over invoice. The salesman will tell you are crazy, and it can't happen. Don't budge. Tell them $500 over invoice and that you will service the car at their location. If they say no, start walking out the door...you won't get that far, they will do the deal.

Why? This is a buyer's market, even with a limited production model such as the F. The economy sucks, sales for GMC, Ford, even Toyotas are down 30-40%. They want the cars off the lot. Period. If you want to be a real pain in the ass, you might even be able to go below invoice.

I can already anticipate the skeptical responses from the crowd, especially the "supporting vendor dealers" on this site, but the deals are out there. I can back my words up with my own personal recent purchases.

I bought my F in July when MRSP and up was the going price in the NY tristate area. I ended up paying several thousand below MRSP along with several extras that I wanted. If anyone is interested in my exact deal, message me. I can prove this with my paperwork. Yes, still above invoice but it wasn't at year's end (like now), and economic times are tougher now.

I bought my wife an Infiniti QX56 late November 20% below MRSP and $5500 BELOW INVOICE. Again, I can back this up with the paperwork.

But, this isn't about me, it about your purchase of your F, of which I highly recommend. The car is amazing. You can see on this site that everyone loves their car, and is proud to be an owner. In the end run, a few thou in either direction will not make a huge difference, but you might as well get the best deal you can get. Good luck.

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drdoug75

Discussion Starter · #11 · Dec 4, 2008

Sorry I still feel like we are dancing around what I am trying to figure out?!?

If I walk in to lexus and ask to see the invoice for car x is that ok? Is that how it is done. Then I offer what 1k 2k 3k 4k over invoice????

hmmmmm........

phootdr

· #12 · Dec 4, 2008

drdoug,

edmunds.com will tell you the invoice price, you just have to put in what options you want. You can ask the dealer, but knowing beforehand paints you as a more knowledgeable thus more confident buyer. If you are having a problem finding the invoice price, why don't you post what options you want, and I am sure the good people on this site will let you know the invoice price. And as to what to offer above invoice, reread my earlier post and do what you are comfortable with.

xrayman

· #13 · Dec 4, 2008

Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in.
I just got my F about 2 weeks ago. It was a "loaded" 2008. The dealer printed out his invoice, which I knew to be accurate based on my reasearch. Offered it for $500 over invoice. That was their first offer. (No trade on this deal) I said I still needed some "candy" and got the i-pod interface (installed) for 'free'. I am not much of a hagler, so I went with it.

I would work on the price of the F first. Don't let them work in the trade yet. Get the price you want/need and THEN work in the trade. If they insist on doing both at the same time, keep a pad of paper and a calculator at your side and make sure the the differential price stays where YOU want/need them to be.

At least that is how I have done it in the past and I feel comfortable with it.

Good Luck!

crazee

· #14 · Dec 4, 2008

phootdr said:
drdoug,

First decide if you want a demo or a brand new one. If you want a demo, you probably won't do better than whats been offered around.

If you want a new one, go haggle your ass off. Check out edmunds for the invoice price with the options you want, forget about MRSP and the part that tells you what others in your area have done. The fact that the dealership has six lying around highly works in your favor, especially if it fits your specifications.

Go and offer $500 over invoice. The salesman will tell you are crazy, and it can't happen. Don't budge. Tell them $500 over invoice and that you will service the car at their location. If they say no, start walking out the door...you won't get that far, they will do the deal.

Why? This is a buyer's market, even with a limited production model such as the F. The economy sucks, sales for GMC, Ford, even Toyotas are down 30-40%. They want the cars off the lot. Period. If you want to be a real pain in the ass, you might even be able to go below invoice.

I can already anticipate the skeptical responses from the crowd, especially the "supporting vendor dealers" on this site, but the deals are out there. I can back my words up with my own personal recent purchases.

I bought my F in July when MRSP and up was the going price in the NY tristate area. I ended up paying several thousand below MRSP along with several extras that I wanted. If anyone is interested in my exact deal, message me. I can prove this with my paperwork. Yes, still above invoice but it wasn't at year's end (like now), and economic times are tougher now.

I bought my wife an Infiniti QX56 late November 20% below MRSP and $5500 BELOW INVOICE. Again, I can back this up with the paperwork.

But, this isn't about me, it about your purchase of your F, of which I highly recommend. The car is amazing. You can see on this site that everyone loves their car, and is proud to be an owner. In the end run, a few thou in either direction will not make a huge difference, but you might as well get the best deal you can get. Good luck.

I agree with what Phootdr is saying 100%. In another post I mentioned about my conversation with a recent Lexus dealer and he told me he sold a ultrasonic blue fully loaded for invoice. Click here to read about another post. Phootdr is right about some people not being too happy about what we post and they get annoyed about it because we're not experts like they are.

drdoug75

Discussion Starter · #15 · Dec 4, 2008

Thanks phootdr, I think that was an excellent review of things. One thing I have a problem with is edmunds just says N/a for the invoice in my area???????

Do I just trust what the salesman shows me.

Is invoice usually 20-30% less than MSRTP???

Thanks
Doug

SuperFreak

· #16 · Dec 4, 2008

drdoug75 said:
Thanks phootdr, I think that was an excellent review of things. One thing I have a problem with is edmunds just says N/a for the invoice in my area???????

Do I just trust what the salesman shows me.

Is invoice usually 20-30% less than MSRTP???

Thanks
Doug

No it is not, the Infiniti had factory rebates which were added to the discount. There are no rebates for the IS-F, figure closer to 9% mark-up from invoice to MSRP.

ISFChamp

· #17 · Dec 4, 2008

God I wish we had 20-30% markup :0

phootdr

· #18 · Dec 5, 2008

drdoug & superfreak,

superfreak, yes you are correct about the incentives...infiniti reimburses the dealer. But, after MY deal, I did pay $6500 under invoice...and since infiniti is offering 7k to their dealerships...that translates to $500 above their cost...which is what I told drdoug to ask for. Plus, they threw in a couple of extras....which I do admit I made a little bit of a pest of myself for...but hey, who is buying big trucks these days, and it doesn't hurt to ask....

drdoug, I went on edmunds and looked up the car. If I was buying today this is what I would do.

Car, no options BRAND NEW. Offer $50,600. That is about $500 over invoice after the destination charges. Tell them you will service the car at their dealership.

Car, loaded except the smart cruise control (ie. plus DVD, ML audio, parking sensors, etc) offer $54,300. Again, this is about $500 over invoice including the destination charges.

Car loaded with the adaptive cruise...your on your own. Just kidding, offer $58.8K.

As I stated before, they will initially tell you that your nuts, that it can't be done....but they will not let you walk out that door....TRUST ME! They bought that car from Lexus already, and it is losing them money sitting on their lot. Multiply that by the six they have laying around and they will be only too happy to get it off their hands. Once agreed, ask for extras. My (lexus) dealership gave up the tire/rim protection package pretty quick....

xrayman is right, save the vette for last. if they ask before or during the negotiations if you are trading in, paying cash, or financing....just tell them "let's agree on a price first" deal with vette after everything else is settled. I personally would take the current low financing offered by lexus and sell the vette privately, but if they meet your number....go for it.

All in all, it makes sense getting a loaded brand new one at 54k+ rather than the demo for a few grand less (sorry andy) but if you don't mind the miles, you can still save that way....I would insist on an extended warranty, however. Again, good luck...and enjoy!

ps to superfreak. If you run the QX56 on edmunds in my zip (10954) fully loaded...the "people in your area" are still paying about 54K versus the 48K I paid, and the dealer incentive is still in affect...I think I did OK....

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nj1IS-F

· #19 · Dec 5, 2008

im geeting rid of my is-f ultrasonic blue with 4500 miles 2008 if interested.

BigMikeISF

· #20 · Dec 5, 2008

nj1IS-F said:
im geeting rid of my is-f ultrasonic blue with 4500 miles 2008 if interested.

Any particular reason if you don't mind me asking?

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