Eta?

27360 Views 164 Replies 29 Participants Last post by doublexl, Aug 28, 2010

doublexl

Discussion Starter · Jul 8, 2010 (Edited by Moderator)

i dont know if im as curious as others, but to put it bluntly.... where the [email protected]#$ are my headers?

the "they should be ready in 3 weeks" was up almost 3 weeks ago. i'd like to get them on my car before it [email protected]#$ing snows this year.

SIKKY!?

81 - 100 of 165 Posts

ISF-88

· #81 · Aug 15, 2010 (Edited)

IMO for 1400 bux for 2 headers u pay for what u get. I've been through many high end JDM brand headers before modding my s2000. I've been through Mugen, Toda racing, J's racing and the quality for all of them was pretty top notch and they were all priced 1700ish CAD and that's just for 1 header. I'm not trying to bash on Sikky or anything but for the price what do ppl expect? Have u guys seen the pricing on Kleeman Headers for the c63? No joke it's double the price. If u guys want superb quality then u gotta pay the hefty price... I'm just stating my opinion here.

Anyhow sorry to hear about your problem with quality with the sikky headers. Hope all works well with them for u.

PIRATE1

· #82 · Aug 15, 2010

hello guy

first sorry for my english again i will try my best

my headers are 100 stock and i need to return to the installer...

already 1 major leak on the driver side (we check the bolt all are tight)

and 2 small on passenger side...

367 hp before and 385 hp after on dynojet!!! after resetting the ecu... but i will return after my double check on the leak

ps... i just hope my headers are not already crack...........somewhere

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doublexl

Discussion Starter · #83 · Aug 15, 2010

that sucks. i hope those gaskets survived all the pinching. i was quoted $72.75 each from Lexus.

doublexl

Discussion Starter · #84 · Aug 15, 2010

ISF-88 said:
IMO for 1400 bux for 2 headers u pay for what u get. I've been through many high end JDM brand headers before modding my s2000. I've been through Mugen, Toda racing, J's racing and the quality for all of them was pretty top notch and they were all priced 1700ish CAD and that's just for 1 header. I'm not trying to bash on Sikky or anything but for the price what do ppl expect? Have u guys seen the pricing on Kleeman Headers for the c63? No joke it's double the price. If u guys want superb quality then u gotta pay the hefty price... I'm just stating my opinion here.

Anyhow sorry to hear about your problem with quality with the sikky headers. Hope all works well with them for u.

Kleeman is made in Denmark, which is basically Germany, which is basically perfection. They are priced at 2,295 euros, which in American is $2,928 this morning.

Just for shits I went to a machine shop here to see about machining the flanges for me, and he said it would be around $1,500 to do so. So there is the difference in cost right there.

eWop313

· #85 · Aug 15, 2010

Are you an engineer doublexl? Seems like you are making major changes to a product without any intelligent background, there derrickhand. I think Sikky knew what they were doing, especially when you see the numbers peoples cars are putting out after their install. You should have left them alone and sent them back if you were unhappy with the product, they even said they would have. Then you could saved some cash and make your own set of headers yourself to "your likings".

PIRATE1

· #86 · Aug 15, 2010

sorry eWop313 i am not a math guys here, and i am also not here to say bad word about anybody but my result is 18hp with sikky headers!!!! so the only thing i can say is ???

but i am happy with the sound

ISF-88

· #87 · Aug 15, 2010 (Edited)

PIRATE1 said:
hello guy

first sorry for my english again i will try my best

my headers are 100 stock and i need to return to the installer...

already 1 major leak on the driver side (we check the bolt all are tight)

and 2 small on passenger side...

367 hp before and 385 hp after on dynojet!!! after resetting the ecu... but i will return after my double check on the leak

ps... i just hope my headers are not already crack...........somewhere

Sorry to hear. I hope Sikky can fix this problem for u.

PIRATE1 said:
sorry eWop313 i am not a math guys here, and i am also not here to say bad word about anybody but my result is 18hp with sikky headers!!!! so the only thing i can say is ???

but i am happy with the sound

Don't worry your not the only one making less power then what Sikky claims. Another member here only made 367whp with i/e/h then he had to reset his ecu and he made 392whp. About 25whp gain after ecu reset...It still made good power but it's no where near the power that Sikky claims...

doublexl

Discussion Starter · #88 · Aug 15, 2010

eWop313 said:
Are you an engineer doublexl? Seems like you are making major changes to a product without any intelligent background, there derrickhand. I think Sikky knew what they were doing, especially when you see the numbers peoples cars are putting out after their install. You should have left them alone and sent them back if you were unhappy with the product, they even said they would have. Then you could saved some cash and make your own set of headers yourself to "your likings".

hey mr. 1st-post-just-got-a-membership-here-to-try-and-bash-somebody just because i dont have a piece of paper saying i went to school for 4 years doesn't mean im not an intelligent and logical human being. any asshole can make a set of headers. results will vary. one guy has his installed and he has 3 leaks. yet to be determined what they are from but i will bet my set of headers that the manifold gaskets did not get a good seal on the raised welds.

have a nice day

ISF-88

· #89 · Aug 15, 2010

I was thinking of purchasing these Sikky Headers for my F but after hearing all these flaws with them and seeing others are not making nearly the power as Sikky claims I may have second thoughts on them. IMO just because 2 ppl with the prototypes made 40-50whp on their F's on the same dynopack still doesn't show proof on the power gains. How do we know if that particular dyno wasn't altered? I'm not accusing Sikky or anyone on this as they possibly didn't know that the dyno was fixed. Also both of those header prototype tests say they did not reset the ecu and made that power. Kind of hard to believe when others had to reset their ecu to make half the power. Anyhow I will hold off on these Headers til Sikky fixes the flaws and wait for the final perfected production.

SIKKY

· #90 · Aug 15, 2010 (Edited)

Nautique said:
Hello Doublexl -

Dude, I'm afraid you're wrong on this.

Grinding off those cups simply isn't something you should try to do by hand and by eyeballing it. Thousandths of an inch make a difference... In addition, the amount of surface area that now must have a complete seal is significantly increased. With heating and cooling cycles, I think you'll have an issue with seals as a result...

Those cups provide a way to leverage the flange such that the seal is at each port...not along the entire length of the assembly.

At any rate - good luck with the project. Mine will be installed on Monday as received from the manufacturer!

Regards,
Mike

Couldn't have been said better. When installed properly, the way they were designed and torqued correctly they will not leak, guaranteed. If for some reason there is a leak then you need to tighten the bolts correctly.

Doublexl, listen carefully since your past the point of no return. What your doing is going to make the header leak horribly. It would not have had an issue if you would have left them the way they were designed. You need to find someone that has a belt sander. Not a hand held one but a stationary one that is large enough to place the whole entire flange on. You need to hold the flange against it till it is flat again. Since you ground off our welds the only option for you now is to sand the whole flange perfectly flat which could never be done by hand. Just trying to help, but if you don't do this it is gonna leak like crazy. Which it would not have done had you not modified it. The fact that you said a machine shop would charge you $1500 makes it very hard to believe anything you say....that is just plain ridiculous.

Also, you don't want to reset your ecu. That's what you guys getting the lower #'s are doing wrong. What you want to do is just cycle the key. What we recommend is drive it for a while, shut it off for a while. Then drive it again and repeat a time or two. What this does is allow time for the ecu's long term and short term fuel adjustments to take effect. Basically the ecu needs to learn the new setup and make it's adjustments. Or if it's on the dyno, you can literally run the car 3 or 4 times, shut it off and let it cool down. 10 min. run it again and watch the #'s go up. Eventually it won't go up anymore and at that point the ecu has finished it's long term fuel corrections.

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doublexl

Discussion Starter · #91 · Aug 15, 2010

how many times do i have to tell you that the flange is straighter now then before i touched it? i went to Sabre Machining, i talked to Tyler Pollock, and asked him what it would take to get this done, and through the conversation he said the cost would likely be another set of headers. when i said so around 1500 and he said that is entirely possible.

they would have to build a jig to hold them steady and flat to put into the sander. he also talked about cleaning up the welds on the inside of the ports by using a circular belt sander.

bottom line. each port is perfectly flat around the diameter in which it will seal to the gasket. is it 100% even across the entire surface of the flange? no, but it is closer then before i started to work on it.

also, you have one customer who has 3 leaks days after his headers were installed. when this cause is determined, we'll see how good your raised welds are. like i said before. the width of the surface you provided to seal to the gakset differed from 1/4" to under 1/8" in some places. and was FAR from round, some are even egg shaped.

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ISF-88

· #92 · Aug 15, 2010 (Edited)

SIKKY said:
Couldn't have been said better. When installed properly, the way they were designed and torqued correctly they will not leak, guaranteed. If for some reason there is a leak then you need to tighten the bolts correctly.

Also, you don't want to reset your ecu. That's what you guys getting the lower #'s are doing wrong. What you want to do is just cycle the key. What we recommend is drive it for a while, shut it off for a while. Then drive it again and repeat a time or two. What this does is allow time for the ecu's long term and short term fuel adjustments to take effect. Basically the ecu needs to learn the new setup and make it's adjustments. Or if it's on the dyno, you can literally run the car 3 or 4 times, shut it off and let it cool down. 10 min. run it again and watch the #'s go up. Eventually it won't go up anymore and at that point the ecu has finished it's long term fuel corrections.

I doubt the leaks came from un tightened bolts. It doesn't take a genius to tighten bolts properly. Especially when the install takes 8 hrs I'm pretty sure the mechanics would double or even triple check everything is right before placing everything back together.

Also u said 10 min cool downs between dyno runs? Where's Joe Z at? He knows all about them cool down runs isn't really consistant power gains

Also I don't blame u doublexi for fixing the header. Especially when we live in Canada and shipping the header back n forth for repairs would be costly unless Sikky covers the shipping costs.

caymandiver75

· #93 · Aug 16, 2010 (Edited)

ISF-88 said:
I was thinking of purchasing these Sikky Headers for my F but after hearing all these flaws with them and seeing others are not making nearly the power as Sikky claims I may have second thoughts on them. IMO just because 2 ppl with the prototypes made 40-50whp on their F's on the same dynopack still doesn't show proof on the power gains. How do we know if that particular dyno wasn't altered? I'm not accusing Sikky or anyone on this as they possibly didn't know that the dyno was fixed. Also both of those header prototype tests say they did not reset the ecu and made that power. Kind of hard to believe when others had to reset their ecu to make half the power. Anyhow I will hold off on these Headers til Sikky fixes the flaws and wait for the final perfected production.

I volunteered to be one of the testers since I live relatively local to SIKKY and I too was quite skeptical. I was so skeptical that I had before and after dyno tests performed on two different dyno's for the header testing. The results speak for themselves.

Dynopak testing at the Sikky Shop.
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/5545277-post99.html

Dynojet testing at an independent shop (MachV)
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/5575514-post124.html

These headers do indeed perform as advertised and that is no BS. They should also fit with no problems if the install is done perfectly and apparently it's a darn tough install. To be honest I don't think I would have gone with headers on this car if they were going to be installed by anyone other than the guys that made them, but I know there are shops out there with the know how, just not the experience.

For reference I just looked at my stock manifold and noticed that that on more than 1 of the openings is raised ever so slightly. This is why SIKKY designed the headers with the bead around the openings.

Here is a picture of the actual headers that went on my car. Compared to the stock manifolds they looks pretty darn good to me!

Stock:

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ISF-88

· #94 · Aug 16, 2010

Cayman don't take this wrong in anyway. I do believe your car made the power. It just sadly to see others did not make the power. I don't exactly know why but maybe every ISF these headers fit differently on each individual vehicle? Maybe those prototypes were perfected after months of R&D compared to the ones that were made after? Assuming they were molded from the original. Anyhow both u and jslapp got the best results out of them prototypes.

caymandiver75

· #95 · Aug 16, 2010

ISF-88 said:
Cayman don't take this wrong in anyway. I do believe your car made the power. It just sadly to see others did not make the power. I don't exactly know why but maybe every ISF these headers fit differently on each individual vehicle? Maybe those prototypes were perfected after months of R&D compared to the ones that were made after? Assuming they were molded from the original. Anyhow both u and jslapp got the best results out of them prototypes.

I understand your thoughts and I understand everyones concern. I also believe in the end the results will be inline with what Jaslapp and I got. I've been to the shop, seen the work they do and how they treat the customers and I'm comfortable in saying that I trust the SIKKY folks 100% with my car.

I'd like to know if anyone else in the Baltimore/Washington area (or futher and is willing to make the drive) is or is planning to get these final release headers and have them installed by the SIKKY folks. Be really curious to see how they fit. The owner could then report the findings to see if they are inline with the others problems being reported here.

ISF-88

· #96 · Aug 16, 2010

I wish I lived in baltimore or close to there as I would love to get my hands on these headers. Since I don't this is why I rather wait it out on purchasing them cause I don't want any future problems or obstacles with them. Until every flaw is fixed and the power gains are consistant then I'll take the plunge on getting a set.

infinus

· #97 · Aug 16, 2010

PIRATE1 said:
hello guy

first sorry for my english again i will try my best

my headers are 100 stock and i need to return to the installer...

already 1 major leak on the driver side (we check the bolt all are tight)

and 2 small on passenger side...

367 hp before and 385 hp after on dynojet!!! after resetting the ecu... but i will return after my double check on the leak

ps... i just hope my headers are not already crack...........somewhere

Just curious if you have that dip in the curve as the prototypes did?

I'm reserving judgement till mine come in.

caymandiver75

· #98 · Aug 16, 2010

infinus said:
Just curious if you have that dip in the curve as the prototypes did?

I'm reserving judgement till mine come in.

What dip are you referring to?

The dynapak graphs posted are a bit confusing to look at, but by looking at my dynojet graph below I really don't see any significant dips in power. What are you referring to exactly?

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SIKKY

· #99 · Aug 16, 2010

caymandiver75 said:
I volunteered to be one of the testers since I live relatively local to SIKKY and I too was quite skeptical. I was so skeptical that I had before and after dyno tests performed on two different dyno's for the header testing. The results speak for themselves.

Dynopak testing at the Sikky Shop.
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/5545277-post99.html

Dynojet testing at an independent shop (MachV)
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/5575514-post124.html

These headers do indeed perform as advertised and that is no BS. They should also fit with no problems if the install is done perfectly and apparently it's a darn tough install. To be honest I don't think I would have gone with headers on this car if they were going to be installed by anyone other than the guys that made them, but I know there are shops out there with the know how, just not the experience.

For reference I just looked at my stock manifold and noticed that that on more than 1 of the openings is raised ever so slightly. This is why SIKKY designed the headers with the bead around the openings.

Here is a picture of the actual headers that went on my car. Compared to the stock manifolds they looks pretty darn good to me!

Stock:

For the record, jslapp and camandiver have the exact same thing everyone else has. These were production models 100% identical to everyone else's. Being that all our tubes are cnc mandrel bent they can't be any different. Prototype testing had been done over a year ago and would be no point to release our final hp #s and specs on a prototype which is why jslapp and caymandiver received "production" models which is what all our hp claims are from "production headers". Which at this point are not "claims" anymore because of the independent dyno results. Proven, end of story.

Doublexl, there is no need to build a jig to sand a flange?????? To "machine" it in a mill YES, you would need to do so. But why?? I hope your not attempting this install yourself. Based on what we have seen so far this would surely be a bad idea! You do realize that you completely ground off the welds that were put there for a reason. You have basically wasted your time and done nothing but damage a perfectly good header. You say it is flat now but your missing the point still. Look at the pics OEM header caymandiver posted and you will see why you should have just picked up the phone first and saved yourself many un needed hours. If toyota thinks it will help seal on a metal gasket I think it's probably a pretty good idea. We could have explained this in 5 min. over the phone if you would have just called before you went hog wild with your grinder.

Note to all, this should be an example of what not to do. As for the other person with leaks, most likely it is between the header and exhaust. Once again, pick up a phone. Caymendiver had a leak at the header exhaust joint and it ended up being 100% related to the angle of the flange on the early model joe z exhaust he had. He can vouch for this too. With the car running on the lift we simply loosened the bolts and moved the flange down till aligned and re torqued. Done! This is common practice with any new exhaust, header install. As for the bolts being tight, there are a few that are very hard to get a wrench on and might not have been tightened all the way because of this. Either way till he knows where the leaks are coming from this is a pointless discussion.

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noslix

· #100 · Aug 16, 2010

I am in no way affiliated with the manufacturer, just had been sent a link to this thread by a good friend who's an IS-F owner. I am a header manufacturer, although not for IS-F's. Typically I do turbocharger systems and large tube, tuned length headers for US domestic vehicles such as Mustangs and Camaros. One of the things we learned early on, even for naturally aspirated engines, is that you cannot maintain an integral seal long term with a completely flat flange. ALL flanges will warp when welded and cooled. That is a given, no matter how well you jig and brace them during fabrication. So if you start with a flat flange and no stub out, you are having to true the entire flange immeadiately. You might start with a seal, but over time and with heat cycles of the engine, that flat flange becomes crooked as a banana. The only way to true it up is to face mill or sand til true. And then in short order it will warp again. And then you have to face mill or sand again. As you continue to face mill or sand, you make the flange thinner which increases it's propensity for warpage. Almost every OEM manufacturer builds their headers with a stub out for a reason. In addition, part of the strength in the tube to flange union is the weld against that stubout. At least on what you'll generally see from a high end header manufacturer, the stub out is what's welded fully. Then on the opposite side of the flange, where the tube runs through the opening, you'll only do small tack welds with steel filler, then fill the remaining area with a silicon/bronze filler. The silicon/bronze filler serves to wick the heat out of the exhaust port into the header tube. Now, that said, that is an old school way of doing things and is not necessarily how all header manufacturers do it now days. But it is the way a LOT of high end manufacturers were taught to do it years ago when they were first learning. You see, header building is somewhat of an art that's handed down from craftsman to craftsman. In the pictures where the poster has filed and ground down the stub out, you can see the parting line between the header tube and the flange in areas. This is a structurally weak area and is prone to leak now. I urge anyone who wishes to do the same to any header, not just these, to carefully consider the implications of your modifications and inquire with knowledgable people first.

Shane Hill

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