470 bhp, what do you think?

4292 Views 6 Replies 5 Participants Last post by lowrider, Aug 24, 2012

2URGSE

Discussion Starter · Aug 12, 2012

I know Toyota is pretty tight lipped about this stuff, but with the new generation, it is rumored there is a 470 bhp engine.

What do you guys think, how likely is this?

With the new M3 may be going twin turbo, Cadillac ATS coming out and the C63 that already has more power, I just hope Lexus steps it up.

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IS F Steve

· #2 · Aug 12, 2012

2URGSE said:
I know Toyota is pretty tight lipped about this stuff, but with the new generation, it is rumored there is a 470 bhp engine.

What do you guys think, how likely is this?

With the new M3 may be going twin turbo, Cadillac ATS coming out and the C63 that already has more power, I just hope Lexus steps it up.

Would be nice if it were only due to ecu changes and we could do a swap plug and play.

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Gymkata

· #3 · Aug 15, 2012

It is certainly not out of the question...my guess is they will stick with a very similar powertrain setup for the next generation, albeit with a minor power bumb...470 is definitely possible though. Since it is almost certain that they won't go the FI route yet, I would love to see Toyota focus on some weight savings and a better 50:50 weight distribution for the next gen ISF. Even if BMW and MB trump the ISF with crazy power for the M3 and C63, I think I would hands down prefer a lighter, more powerful, and better chassis version of the current ISF. If the ISF could get 470bhp and drop weight to 3600 lbs, that would be awesome, and easily doable for Toyota w/o a lot of R&D. That would yield a power to weight ratio of 7.66 lbs/bhp vs the current 9.09 lbs/bhp. It would be less evolutionary than the Germans, but would yield equally impressive results while using a tried and true powertrain that gets decent fuel economy for what class of car it is. If Lexus made these few changes, the next gen ISF would be capable of 11s stock and would be a track monster.

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2URGSE

Discussion Starter · #4 · Aug 15, 2012 (Edited)

Gymkata said:
It is certainly not out of the question...my guess is they will stick with a very similar powertrain setup for the next generation, albeit with a minor power bumb...470 is definitely possible though. Since it is almost certain that they won't go the FI route yet, I would love to see Toyota focus on some weight savings and a better 50:50 weight distribution for the next gen ISF. Even if BMW and MB trump the ISF with crazy power for the M3 and C63, I think I would hands down prefer a lighter, more powerful, and better chassis version of the current ISF. If the ISF could get 470bhp and drop weight to 3600 lbs, that would be awesome, and easily doable for Toyota w/o a lot of R&D. That would yield a power to weight ratio of 7.66 lbs/bhp vs the current 9.09 lbs/bhp. It would be less evolutionary than the Germans, but would yield equally impressive results while using a tried and true powertrain that gets decent fuel economy for what class of car it is. If Lexus made these few changes, the next gen ISF would be capable of 11s stock and would be a track monster.

You made some very good points. To make anything go faster, it's either:

1. Shave weight.
2. Increase the power.
3. Both

I don't know how they can save 100 lbs, they'd have to lose something. Being it's a luxury car, they would have to get creative.

The simple math of 416/5 = 83.2 horsepower per liter.

The engine is already 11.8:1 compression, I don't know how much more they can squeeze out of it.

I do agree with you that I don't see them going with forced induction, I'd be very very surprised if they did.

I really don't understand why they didn't start with the Tundra 5.7L unit, but hey, it's not too late isn't it?

5.7L x 83.2 hp/L = 474 horsepower.

If they shorten the stroke, they can get more RPM out of the engine. Higher flowing exhaust and headers can also help and of course some work with the ECU.

I guess time will tell.

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Gymkata

· #5 · Aug 16, 2012

They can always make the car lighter, the question is just how much it will cost. Look at the newly unveiled 2013 Range Rover. It is between 700 and 900 lbs lighter than the 2012 depending on trim level. They essentially switched EVERYTHING to aluminum.

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anxiouz

· #6 · Aug 24, 2012

2URGSE said:
I really don't understand why they didn't start with the Tundra 5.7L unit, but hey, it's not too late isn't it?

The 5L V8 we have now is already super cramped. Anything bigger would require some significant structural changes to accomodate.

I think engine bay space is a big factor for the next model. Lexus either needs to no longer re-use an engine from it's lineup and go all new, or go smaller and FI. Going FI they can reuse an existing engine and just fortify it.

Besides a different engine and body style, I'm expecting a lot to carry over from the current model. But yeah...who knows. Not a great deal of info coming out about it right now but speculation.

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lowrider

· #7 · Aug 24, 2012

^^^^A bigger engine doesn't have to be bigger in physical size. Bore and stroke increases, increase displacement, hence a bigger engine.

Lou

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