470 bhp, what do you think? - Lexus ISF / IS-F / LFA / LF-A Forum
 
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post #1 of 7 Old 08-12-2012, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
2URGSE
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470 bhp, what do you think?

I know Toyota is pretty tight lipped about this stuff, but with the new generation, it is rumored there is a 470 bhp engine.

What do you guys think, how likely is this?

With the new M3 may be going twin turbo, Cadillac ATS coming out and the C63 that already has more power, I just hope Lexus steps it up.
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post #2 of 7 Old 08-12-2012, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 2URGSE View Post
I know Toyota is pretty tight lipped about this stuff, but with the new generation, it is rumored there is a 470 bhp engine.

What do you guys think, how likely is this?

With the new M3 may be going twin turbo, Cadillac ATS coming out and the C63 that already has more power, I just hope Lexus steps it up.

Would be nice if it were only due to ecu changes and we could do a swap plug and play.

08 Lexus IS-F-Obsidian / Vossen CV3's / Invo 245/30/20 -285/25/20/ AFE Filter / Borla Exhaust / Painted (Porsche Yellow) Calipers / Racing Brakes Two Piece Rotors / Hawk Ceramic Pads / Project MU Pads / 4500K HID Fog Lights / Tinted Tail Lights / Rear Diffuser / Black Pearl Badges / Painted Grill Surround / Carbon Fiber Steering Wheel / Carbon Fiber Splitters / Black Chrome Exhaust Tips / Escort 9500IX / car has a new owner.
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post #3 of 7 Old 08-15-2012, 01:20 PM
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It is certainly not out of the question...my guess is they will stick with a very similar powertrain setup for the next generation, albeit with a minor power bumb...470 is definitely possible though. Since it is almost certain that they won't go the FI route yet, I would love to see Toyota focus on some weight savings and a better 50:50 weight distribution for the next gen ISF. Even if BMW and MB trump the ISF with crazy power for the M3 and C63, I think I would hands down prefer a lighter, more powerful, and better chassis version of the current ISF. If the ISF could get 470bhp and drop weight to 3600 lbs, that would be awesome, and easily doable for Toyota w/o a lot of R&D. That would yield a power to weight ratio of 7.66 lbs/bhp vs the current 9.09 lbs/bhp. It would be less evolutionary than the Germans, but would yield equally impressive results while using a tried and true powertrain that gets decent fuel economy for what class of car it is. If Lexus made these few changes, the next gen ISF would be capable of 11s stock and would be a track monster.

2008 Lexus IS F - SGM - JoeZ intake pipe, Tom's filter, Borla catback exhaust, 30% tint all around, 245/35R19 and 275/30R19 Continental DWS tires
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post #4 of 7 Old 08-15-2012, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gymkata View Post
It is certainly not out of the question...my guess is they will stick with a very similar powertrain setup for the next generation, albeit with a minor power bumb...470 is definitely possible though. Since it is almost certain that they won't go the FI route yet, I would love to see Toyota focus on some weight savings and a better 50:50 weight distribution for the next gen ISF. Even if BMW and MB trump the ISF with crazy power for the M3 and C63, I think I would hands down prefer a lighter, more powerful, and better chassis version of the current ISF. If the ISF could get 470bhp and drop weight to 3600 lbs, that would be awesome, and easily doable for Toyota w/o a lot of R&D. That would yield a power to weight ratio of 7.66 lbs/bhp vs the current 9.09 lbs/bhp. It would be less evolutionary than the Germans, but would yield equally impressive results while using a tried and true powertrain that gets decent fuel economy for what class of car it is. If Lexus made these few changes, the next gen ISF would be capable of 11s stock and would be a track monster.
You made some very good points. To make anything go faster, it's either:

1. Shave weight.
2. Increase the power.
3. Both

I don't know how they can save 100 lbs, they'd have to lose something. Being it's a luxury car, they would have to get creative.

The simple math of 416/5 = 83.2 horsepower per liter.

The engine is already 11.8:1 compression, I don't know how much more they can squeeze out of it.

I do agree with you that I don't see them going with forced induction, I'd be very very surprised if they did.

I really don't understand why they didn't start with the Tundra 5.7L unit, but hey, it's not too late isn't it?

5.7L x 83.2 hp/L = 474 horsepower.

If they shorten the stroke, they can get more RPM out of the engine. Higher flowing exhaust and headers can also help and of course some work with the ECU.

I guess time will tell.

Last edited by 2URGSE; 08-15-2012 at 11:47 PM.
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post #5 of 7 Old 08-16-2012, 01:11 PM
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They can always make the car lighter, the question is just how much it will cost. Look at the newly unveiled 2013 Range Rover. It is between 700 and 900 lbs lighter than the 2012 depending on trim level. They essentially switched EVERYTHING to aluminum.

2008 Lexus IS F - SGM - JoeZ intake pipe, Tom's filter, Borla catback exhaust, 30% tint all around, 245/35R19 and 275/30R19 Continental DWS tires
2006 Honda CBR1000RR - Akrapovic Evolution Line Race Exhaust, BMC Race Air Filters, Vortec Rear Sets, Bazzaz Tuner, Dyno Mapped
2000 Honda S2000 (Sold and missed)- AP2 in an AP1, BC coilovers, Prodrive monoblock forged wheels, etc.

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post #6 of 7 Old 08-24-2012, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 2URGSE View Post
I really don't understand why they didn't start with the Tundra 5.7L unit, but hey, it's not too late isn't it?
The 5L V8 we have now is already super cramped. Anything bigger would require some significant structural changes to accomodate.

I think engine bay space is a big factor for the next model. Lexus either needs to no longer re-use an engine from it's lineup and go all new, or go smaller and FI. Going FI they can reuse an existing engine and just fortify it.

Besides a different engine and body style, I'm expecting a lot to carry over from the current model. But yeah...who knows. Not a great deal of info coming out about it right now but speculation.

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post #7 of 7 Old 08-24-2012, 11:57 PM
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^^^^A bigger engine doesn't have to be bigger in physical size. Bore and stroke increases, increase displacement, hence a bigger engine.

Lou

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