In case everyone is not aware, I am currently working with Hawk Performance brake pad to provide us all with an alternative to OE brake pads in light of recent discussions regarding brake pad replacement, longevity, dusting, performance, pitting on wheels, compound choices, etc. I personally have used Hawk performance pads on the street (HPS compound) as well as the (HP Plus compound) on the track and have never experienced anything better. The street pads I have used provided about 20-25% better stopping by just replacing the pads and have not had an increase in dusting on the wheels!
I have been working with Tom Blough @ Hawk and he was kind enough to shed some light on Hawk Performance/Wellman Friction's take on manufacturing brake pads and friction material. I will share it with you:

Doug-



I wanted to email some of the information that we talked about Friday.

Hawk Performance v OE Replacement-

Most OE and OE replacement pads are imported/sourced from countries like Taiwan, China, Mexico, etc. There are many questions that could be asked regarding the integrity of the pads – quality being the first and foremost. The QC of these facilities is questionable at best. Much of the material, especially coming from China, is second grade material while the “good” stuff has been reserved for the parent country. A great example is the 2008 Beijing Olympics and 2008 earthquakes in China. Most of the steel/ raw materials imported into China were used for these two events. This leaves scrap, lower quality materials for the rest of us.


The “pitting” that you were referring to, has a lot to do with quality. This is a strong indication that the material being used is not able to withstand the heat or use that is being asked of it. OE pads are known for their quiet, low dusting, and rotor friendly features but not for their actual stopping power. This is a great indication that the material present- even though consistent with the traditional fibers in semi-met brake pads- is even lower in quality than normal.

Hawk Performance pads are not a traditional OE replacement. OE replacements are typically semi-met or maybe even ceramic. Hawk is a carbon semi-metallic that contains high levels of carbon fibers. The importance of the carbon fibers is the heat tolerance that they can withstand which is at least 200-300F higher than traditional OE replacement. Another aspect of the carbon fibers is that they can still maintain the low dust, low noise, and rotor friendly qualities of the OE pads.

Hawk Performance pads are made in the USA- Medina, Ohio to be exact. The technology behind the pad goes back 80 years with our parent company Wellman Products Group. We develop and manufacture OE parts for Caterpillar, John Deere, and the US Military. This same technology is used when manufacturing Hawk Performance pads.

Semi-metallic v Ceramic:

The recent trend or “buzz” word is ceramic. Some end users refuse to buy a traditional OE replacement if they find out ceramic is used with the original. The basis behind this belief is that ceramic are easy on rotors and dust less than semi mets. The reality is that there is no governing standard to which a ceramic brake pad is made; meaning the levels of ceramic or silica particulate are not mandated by any group, agency, or rules. These so called “ceramic” pads could contain as little as 2% silica content with the remaining 98% traditional metallic fibers.

Performance Ceramic:

When the buzz about ceramic pads was circulating, Hawk Performance decided to develop a compound to meet the needs and request for this customer. Our challenge was to maintain the integrity of the HPS but emphasize the use of silica particles. With our ceramic compound, were able to use at least 7% silica content and maintain the “Performance” aspect of the pad. Both HPS and our Performance Ceramic are low dusting but the “PC” emits a light gray colored dust which can give the illusion of lower dusting. Pedal feel is also different. Stopping power between our HPS and PC is the same but the pedal feel for a PC is smoother than that of a grippy HPS.

Thomas Blough
Sales Manager
Hawk Performance

<end>
My thanks to Tom for taking the time to share his thoughts.
Hawk will have a set of OE IS-F pads in their hands this week. R & D will begin and they will have pads available for us in the very near future. I will keep this thread updated as I know more !


Doug

Wow that's a very interesting read. Great news to hear. Keep us updated. I'm sure everyone will be willing to swap to less dusty pads. It's too bad Toyota/Lexus can't replicate the low dust TSIB pads like they did with the 2IS and 3GS.

Wow, thats very interesting stuff Doug. Thanks for taking the time to contact them and ship out some stock F rotors to them. Keep us updated!

to Hawk for enlightening us and for their willings to make pads for our cars. Please keep us posted as it does sound like the Hawk pads may be worth a good look if not having them installed as soon as they are ready !

Great info Doug, thanks for taking action on this and engaging Hawk. I use Hawk pads in conjuction with the products from Racing Brake and have great confidence in their abilities and their product. Keep us updated.
Fig

Thanks Doug for looking into this and bringing more alternative options to the owners. I guess there is a trade off less dust but at the sacrifice of stopping power if I'm reading it correctly. Feel free to correct me.

Thanks Doug for looking into this and bringing more alternative options to the owners. I guess there is a trade off less dust but at the sacrifice of stopping power if I'm reading it correctly. Feel free to correct me.

LOL, we are all learning together. The ceramic pads will appear to dust less, but the way I read is they don't stop in as short of a distance as the ferro-carbon material. I hope they hold decent pricing as I wouldn't want their re-sale value to drop! :)

Hi guys,
Tom from Hawk Performance brake has been monitoring this thread and had this info to share: (when he mentions PC-that refers to Performance Ceramic)

To Crazee:

Yes this is accurate. The OE Pads may be less dusting….MAYBE, but there definitely is a difference in stopping power, about 20-30% more with Hawk.



To FChampOH:

Actually the PC and HPS have similar stopping distances, the difference is in the pedal feel. PC has a smoother engagement initially while the HPS grips more initially: the stopping distances are virtually the same, give or take a foot.

Thanks

Thomas Blough
Hawk Performance
Sales Manager

Hawk performance has a new set of factory pads officially in hand and has begun the measuring process. We should know of their findings any day. Worst case would be that new backing plates would need to be manufactured and might delay things a little. Hawk has compounds that fit a wide range of automotive activities from Street to Race Track and are a major sponsor of the SCCA. (Sports Car Club of America)
Doug

News Flash!!!!
According to my source at Hawk Performance, we should see parts(finished brake pad sets) available in 30-45 days!

Pricing has not been set as of this post.

More to come, as updates come into the newsroom. :)

Great to hear! Thanks Doug.

Great to hear! Thanks Doug.

+1, thanks Doug for all your hard work in getting us more and more parts/aftermarket supplies for the F

From the newsroom:

From Hawk:

Sometimes the process takes longer than you would like but I want to keep you updated. The cores for the ISF pads were delayed but I am told they are in route. Once we receive, we have to send them to go through our bonding procedure- this takes a few weeks. I am told projected finish date is April 30. This date is product leaving the door, fulfilling orders. Pricing is not available yet.

End.

I will commit to keeping you all informed when pricing is available. I would like to get a feel for any interest from current IS-F owners for a group buy on Hawk performance brake pads, most likely just the front pads at first. What do you think?

Doug

Awesome Doug, you da man. I will be very happy to move away from the factory pads to get back into some Hawks.



SSSSSSSSSSSSCCCCREEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAATTCCCHHHHH HHH
Fig

add me in, definitely tired of cleaning my wheels.....probably gonna replace both front and rear myself....

Count me in as well. I'm tired too.

Please keep us posted with the price.

I've been using Performance Friction in my previous cars, yes brake dust is incredible but at least the rotors are preserved. I'm very happy with PF pads, I have yet to try Hawks.

Looks like we're about 30 days away from having Hawk pads based on the last update. Just as another testimonial, I have used several different brands of pads for street, autocross and road race course use and have not found anything better for an all-around pad than the Hawk products. My experience with their street pad has shown about a 20% increase in shorter stopping distance. As I drive in all the familiar areas around town and roll up to stop signs or red lights I begin to notice that I am stopping a lot further back with Hawk than with stock pads when applying the same pressure to the brake pedal! Also, I notice a significant reduction in brake dust on my expensive wheels, this is good. More updates to come......

Looks like we're about 30 days away from having Hawk pads based on the last update. Just as another testimonial, I have used several different brands of pads for street, autocross and road race course use and have not found anything better for an all-around pad than the Hawk products. My experience with their street pad has shown about an 18% increase in stopping distance. As I drive in all the familiar areas around town and roll up to stop signs or red lights I begin to notice that I am stopping a lot further back with Hawk than with stock pads when applying the same pressure to the brake pedal! Also, I notice a significant reduction in brake dust on my expensive wheels, this is good. More updates to come......

Champ,

Thanks for the update! Make sure you add me to the GB.

Rachael

+1 I'm also growing weary of constantly cleaning the wheels so please keep me posted as well.

Thanks!!!

Hey Doug, was wondering if there's any update or news from Hawk performance about those pads.

I hope to have some kind of answer this week!

I hope to have some kind of answer this week!

What's the latest?

I maybe interested!! PM me when you have pricing.

i'm interested too

What's the latest?

Hey guys,
sorry to have been away from this link for a bit, we have been busy at the dealership! That's good, right? We are very close on having pads in hand. I should have a front set in hand early next week for fit and testing. I am very excited to have these pads for the "F" as they have great potential based on my experience with them. I am told I will have pricing by Monday or Tuesday of next week. At that point we can start the ordering process: If you know the Hawk product you will be able to choose from 3 compounds, HPS - HP Plus - and Ceramic. Please have an idea of which compound you might want. If you're not familiar, start reading ! http://hawkperformance.com/performance/hps.php Until then...

Doug

Hawk brake pads are now available to order for the IS-F! Please follow this link for more information. Thank you all for your patience.;)

Official release thread : http://www.lexusf.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1553

this may be a dumb question
but does anyone know of a diy for the back pads
everywhere i look i only see places offering the front pads

why not the back, is there a reason for this?
thanks

The biggest reason is because the front brakes perform about 75-80% of all the braking. I imagine rear pads will come, eventually. You don't want the rear brakes too good as they might lock for a moment if you trail brake into a fast corner on the track and send the car into a spin.:eek:

^exactly what he said. :D

Hey Doug, any idea how dusting is and how does grip compare to stock?

thanks for the response, i figured it was something like that

No physical tests yet with the IS-F but if history holds true on every Hawk HPS pad I have ever used, they will dust less and provide roughly 20% better stopping power. The ceramic pad will dust even less with almost the same stopping power as the HPS.

Doug, what's a good compound for street and track? More for the quarterly track days that we do over here.

Doug, what's a good compound for street and track? More for the quarterly track days that we do over here.

The HPS from Hawk is the best compound for street and road course IMO. Remember these pads are ferro-carbon. They have bits of carbon fibers mixed in the compound partly to handle a little more heat.

Sounds good, I'm in for a pair of HPS. Doug, Please PM me your complete name as it appears on your ID, your location, the amount, and I'll send you the money via Western Union. Kindly give me you cel no, hopefully you go by text too. You'll have to mail it to someone in CA who will take care of sending it over to me.
Thanks in advance!

Doug, I sent you a PM. Need info on payment method.

Doug, you have a PM. I didn't check this thread before I PM'ed you back. I didn't realize it was a 10-14 day ship period :(

Thanks for taking my order, Doug.

Thanks too, Doug. I will let you know once I get them.

hey doug i just got mine will install this weekend. thanx.

Forgot to tell you, Doug, I got mine a month ago. Thanks again.

got mines installed today. i hardly notice any difference between stock and these hawk pads. no dust or noise. no more wheel cleaning everyday after work. thanks again doug!

got mines installed today. i hardly notice any difference between stock and these hawk pads. no dust or noise. no more wheel cleaning everyday after work. thanks again doug!

I'm glad those worked out for you Evil T! I hope you meant that the Hawk ceramic pads work just as well as the OE pads with significantly less dust and noise. :) It was my pleasure!

I thought it might be time to get some feedback from those of you who had purchased any of the Hawk Brake Pads for your IS-F. If you have installed a front set please share with the forum your thoughts on the performance of the Hawk pads as far as stopping power,dust, etc. vs. the factory pads, good or bad. This information will help to make this thread complete for those seeking brake pad performance information. Thanks!

Doug got pads about 3 months ago from you, pads have been good dust is 30 to 40% of what it was originally. (Note to self, don't take these pads on the track!) Brake feel is 75% of stock without the original bite of the stock pads. Would really recommend these pads for everyday use! P.S. Doug is a great guy to deal with!

Nathan, thanks for the update on your ceramic Hawk pads! I'm glad to hear that you are seeing much less dust over the factory pads. The initial bite when applying the brakes is a much smoother engagement for sure with the ceramic pads. I would not recommend the ceramic pads for the track as well, great for everyday use though. The Hawk ceramic make up about 75% of what we have sold so far for the IS-F. I genuinely appreciate your insight and hope that more IS-F owners with the Hawk pads from us will post their thoughts as well, good or not so good. Any additional thoughts from other owners will help put a closing on the Hawk brake pad story that started almost a year ago. These thoughts will also help any owners doing research on the Hawk brake pad product!

Doug

For the individuals that installed the pads. Did you change all four or just the front? If so please mention the type of brakes. It seems like the hawk ceramic pads are the common ones?

I think you'll find that there aren't a whole lot of manufacturers making a rear pad for the F yet. Hawk included. The Hawk ceramic front pads are by far the biggest percentage of what I have sold so far. Hope this helps. Send me an e-mail or PM if I can help out.

Another thank you from the UK! I picked up a set of Hawk Performance Ceramic pads for my IS-F from Tire Rack when I was in Texas this month.

Count me as another satisfied customer. Doug turned around my order very quickly and I now have my new Hawk performance ceramic pads. I can't wait to get them installed.

Jeff
08 Smoky Granite Mica IS F

Thanks Jeff, glad I could help out. It was a pleasure working with you. Remember to follow the installation and break in (burnishing) instructions for best results!

Doug Greenup

Another satisfied customer here as well. Installed about 3 weeks ago and NO DUST!!!! Wow. Needs some rears soon.
Thanks Doug
Andy

Not sure if this is normal or not, but I'm getting two rust bands, one near the hub of the rotor and one on the outside edge. I assume these pads are just a little smaller so aren't sweeping the entire rotor.

Brakes work great, too early to judge on the dust, but my wheels are still shiny so that is always a good sign :)

Jeff
08 Smoky Granite Mica IS-F

Jeff,
what your seeing is not uncommon. Give them a little more time to bed in completely to the face of the rotor. I'm glad to hear your wheels are still shiny! Thanks again for the business.

Doug got pads about 3 months ago from you, pads have been good dust is 30 to 40% of what it was originally. (Note to self, don't take these pads on the track!) Brake feel is 75% of stock without the original bite of the stock pads. Would really recommend these pads for everyday use! P.S. Doug is a great guy to deal with!

so they dont bite as well as the factory? do they have rear pads yet?

I would assume that the OEM are Brembo pads since we have brembo calipers. i think those would be the best since they were engineered for the car.....any input to this?

The initial bite of the Hawk Ceramic pads when first applying the brakes isn't as "grabby" as the factory pads. The do stop very well though with much less dust. The HPS and the HP Plus pads stop significantly better than the OE pads. The HP Plus pads are mainly track pads, they stop incredibly well with more dust than the OE. The HPS stop better than the OE pad with less dust.

Hey Doug, any word if they'll be doing rear pads? I don't wanna switch brand/composite for the front pads without a matching rear set.

Hey Doug , Tried emailing you the other week , and still awaiting a reply on a price and postage to Australia, I replyed in the other thread i opened in regards to the Torsen Diff, and still im awaing a reply...

I understand life in a dealership can be hard at the best of times, but if im a potential customer , then waiting for a simple reply via email (for months) aint too good in regards to customer service..

Now i dont agree with flaming people on a public forum, and Im sure your a great bloke, but a reply would be good, a reply with some prices would be even better.

Thanks and hope to hear back from you .

Richie