We finally have the final dyno #'s on the Elite headers!!

We were able to get Splats car on the dyno yesterday! The Elite Shorty headers produced about 30whp through the entire RPM range, and at times 40ftlbs of torque in the lower rpm's! After all was said and done we made 432.2whp and 398ftlbs of torque!

We are happy with the added torque!! The car feels amazing!

Mod list:
Elite Autosport Shorty Headers
Elite Autosport Prototype Cold Air Intake
Elite Ported Intake Manifold
Elite Ported Throttle Body
ISS Forged Race Exhaust
STOCK ECU! NO TUNING!

We will be selling these headers, the pricing will be at $1695 per set that INCLUDES coating and we will be taking pre orders starting now! Production sets will be ready to ship in 5-6 weeks! Please place pre-orders here: http://elite-autosport.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3_5_6

Prototypes were NOT coated!

RED: Stock Intake Box, Factory Exhaust Manifolds
BLUE: Elite Prototype Intake, Factory Manifolds No Power gain...
Purple: Factory Intake, Elite Shorty Headers 418.6 Whp and 388 Torque
Green: Elite Prototype Intake, Elite Shorty Headers 432.2whp and 398 Torque

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s25/boostin50/ISF%20Headers/scan0001-2.jpg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s25/boostin50/ISF%20Headers/100_4770.jpg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s25/boostin50/ISF%20Headers/100_4806.jpg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s25/boostin50/ISF%20Headers/100_4805.jpg

AFTER THE DYNO!

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s25/boostin50/ISF%20Headers/100_4814.jpg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s25/boostin50/ISF%20Headers/100_4815.jpg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s25/boostin50/ISF%20Headers/100_4816.jpg

Nice Results!!!

Any pics of the prototype cold air intake? When will it be available for sale? Any chance your going to add high-flow cats to your header system?

Your going to pull a check engine light with the stock ecu. You may not have the light yet but its there. It pulled on the second you fired it up just hasn't popped up yet. Best of luck I hope you prove me wrong in 500 miles. Your price is a bit steap though considering the Sikky headers make more power on a car that is not as free flowing. just my opinion though. Good luck Elite glad to hear your gettin one step closer.

Your going to pull a check engine light with the stock ecu. You may not have the light yet but its there. It pulled on the second you fired it up just hasn't popped up yet. Best of luck I hope you prove me wrong in 500 miles. Your price is a bit steap though considering the Sikky headers make more power on a car that is not as free flowing. just my opinion though. Good luck Elite glad to hear your gettin one step closer.

Considering that their headers come with the coating their pricing is spot in with sikky's.

What does pricing look like for the intake? It seems without it, the headers are good for ~16whp, and the other 14 come from the combination.
Also, I think "Mid-length" is a little more apprpriate for thse bad boys ;)

We are going to get some miles on the car and then dyno it again to see if the ECU will Adapt anymore.

Considering that their headers come with the coating their pricing is spot in with sikky's.

The SIKKY headers also come ceramic coated.

The SIKKY headers also come ceramic coated.

guess i missed that, hmm the more you know.

Humm. Figured they would make more power than this.

Humm. Figured they would make more power than this.

I can think of two reasons for this.

1. The Elite prototypes are not yet ceramic coated.
2. The Elite headers have more welded joints compared to the SIKKY headers possibly resulting in reduced flow. The SIKKY headers are all CNC mandrel bent tubing with minimum joints, ensuring maximum flow.

Ceramic coating will happen in the next week or so. Then we will see what happens.. The added torque it AMAZING tho!!

You still pull a check engine light and we made almost as much power without them ceramic coated. You should make more power with splats F then mine. I'd really like to see a set of sikky headers on splats car. And our dynos are before the ECU resetted. We took a baseline for my car and james's then put the headers on and followed with a dyno. No chance for the ecu to reset.

The check engine light is not an issue..... I don't know where your getting that... I had an O2 sim on the car and it was fine. Right now I am working on a possible fix without useing the Simulators. I am not saying our headers made more power than Sikky, I never have said that. I would LOVE to get a set of sikky headers to try on Splats car... If you can get a set to me in the next week I will test them on his car. I have some thoughts to why the car didn't make the power, but I also wanna try ours on a more stock car.

How many miles do you have on the car with the headers?

Thanks Andy. I'm liking the fact that we are getting more options for our cars. What I'd love to hear about is a side by side comparison on sound levels between the two options available. I'm sure it will happen eventually.

How many miles do you have on the car with the headers?


We have about 300 on them as of today, with more miles going on daily. CEL came on with the first option, so I install the SIM. That worked just fine, now I have a different idea installed and we are looking good so far!

Great numbers!

The check engine light is not an issue..... I don't know where your getting that... I had an O2 sim on the car and it was fine. Right now I am working on a possible fix without useing the Simulators. I am not saying our headers made more power than Sikky, I never have said that. I would LOVE to get a set of sikky headers to try on Splats car... If you can get a set to me in the next week I will test them on his car. I have some thoughts to why the car didn't make the power, but I also wanna try ours on a more stock car.

My car's bone stock. Send me a set at a discounted price and I'll put them on and do a before and after on a dynojet (6th gear, smoothing 5). Also, considering a Joe Z exhaust at the moment so I could do them before or after this mod. Just saying ;)

We have about 300 on them as of today, with more miles going on daily. CEL came on with the first option, so I install the SIM. That worked just fine, now I have a different idea installed and we are looking good so far!

The Sim should be fine, although I am sure a "spacer" will work just as well.

One thing that i see missing from all of these dynos are display and discussion of A/F ratios. Are you putting an O2 sensor when you dyno these cars? How do we know that these cars with all the increase air flow are not running lean as hell and producing the increased horse power and torque? I am not saying that is what happening. But as many cars i have modded in the past a dyno without having the AF tracing is pretty useless in my opinion.

Since no ECU tuning is being done you have no control over fuel or timing it would be very important to make sure what the AF ratio is during the run.

One thing that i see missing from all of these dynos are display and discussion of A/F ratios. Are you putting an O2 sensor when you dyno these cars? How do we know that these cars with all the increase air flow are not running lean as hell and producing the increased horse power and torque? I am not saying that is what happening. But as many cars i have modded in the past a dyno without having the AF tracing is pretty useless in my opinion.

Since no ECU tuning is being done you have no control over fuel or timing it would be very important to make sure what the AF ratio is during the run.

The headers did not change the AFR at all. Yes we did monitor the AFR but I don't have a chart readily available to show you. I will put my reputaion on the line by saying the AFR with our headers its almost identical to the factory AFR curve.

The Sim should be fine, although I am sure a "spacer" will work just as well.

Spacers don't work.

congrats on 300 miles and no cel

Well...i'm just a neutral party here...but compared to the Sikky headers...there's a nice STEADY gain here....there's loop holes on the graph posted on CL for the Sikky headers.

Ok, just to clarify since there seems to be some mis information going around

When buying the Sikky header for a total of $1295.00 you receive
-Pair of sikky headers
-cnc bent dipstick tube
-ceramic coating standard on all sikky headers
-New grade 8 hardware
-Micro processor
-gaskets

there ya go :)

The headers did not change the AFR at all. Yes we did monitor the AFR but I don't have a chart readily available to show you. I will put my reputaion on the line by saying the AFR with our headers its almost identical to the factory AFR curve.

Glad to hear you guys came up with the same results for the AFR. Lots of talk over on Clublexus worrying about AFR and EGT's.

The headers did not change the AFR at all. Yes we did monitor the AFR but I don't have a chart readily available to show you. I will put my reputaion on the line by saying the AFR with our headers its almost identical to the factory AFR curve.



Andy,

I appreciate the response. I hope you dont take offense to this, but i would not risk my engine with just a "trust me" statement. I would not feel comfortable in a leap of faith. I have a question for you. Can you tell me why with Mercedes Benz or even GM V8 such as LS2, L3 etc even a slight increase in air flow such as intake, exhaust and of course headers and cams all involve a tune?

When a product such as this is in development i would make sure that all parameters are in check. Have you checked timing in a stock car in 6th gear and check it again with the headers, exhaust and intake to make sure that the ECU is giving you full timing? Yes you might have gained ~30-40whp but you might be limiting yourself big time because the car is pulling timing. Obviously if you check EGTs before and after it might also clue you in if the ECU was pulling timing. The assumption that the ECU will just adjust is too much of an assumption. In pretty much all platforms when you are increasing flow you need to tune for best results and to make sure you are not hitting any lean areas.

If you can please with your next dyno since i know you will many times, stick a sniffer in the tail pipe and trace the AFR and post it with the dyno.

Andy,

I appreciate the response. I hope you dont take offense to this, but i would not risk my engine with just a "trust me" statement. I would not feel comfortable in a leap of faith. I have a question for you. Can you tell me why with Mercedes Benz or even GM V8 such as LS2, L3 etc even a slight increase in air flow such as intake, exhaust and of course headers and cams all involve a tune?

When a product such as this is in development i would make sure that all parameters are in check. Have you checked timing in a stock car in 6th gear and check it again with the headers, exhaust and intake to make sure that the ECU is giving you full timing? Yes you might have gained ~30-40whp but you might be limiting yourself big time because the car is pulling timing. Obviously if you check EGTs before and after it might also clue you in if the ECU was pulling timing. The assumption that the ECU will just adjust is too much of an assumption. In pretty much all platforms when you are increasing flow you need to tune for best results and to make sure you are not hitting any lean areas.

If you can please with your next dyno since i know you will many times, stick a sniffer in the tail pipe and trace the AFR and post it with the dyno.

since you know it all, the reason you must tune when installing a cam is because the cam changes the valve lift and duration so the ecu needs to know those things to keep up on the fuel injection. simply changing air flow does not make a tune a must, sure it will gain more power, but as long as everything is close the car isnt going to explode.

Andy,

I appreciate the response. I hope you dont take offense to this, but i would not risk my engine with just a "trust me" statement. I would not feel comfortable in a leap of faith. I have a question for you. Can you tell me why with Mercedes Benz or even GM V8 such as LS2, L3 etc even a slight increase in air flow such as intake, exhaust and of course headers and cams all involve a tune?

When a product such as this is in development i would make sure that all parameters are in check. Have you checked timing in a stock car in 6th gear and check it again with the headers, exhaust and intake to make sure that the ECU is giving you full timing? Yes you might have gained ~30-40whp but you might be limiting yourself big time because the car is pulling timing. Obviously if you check EGTs before and after it might also clue you in if the ECU was pulling timing. The assumption that the ECU will just adjust is too much of an assumption. In pretty much all platforms when you are increasing flow you need to tune for best results and to make sure you are not hitting any lean areas.

If you can please with your next dyno since i know you will many times, stick a sniffer in the tail pipe and trace the AFR and post it with the dyno.

As I have already said.... We DID monitor AFR's... They were about .2 points leaner than stock through the RPM band, and actually richer up top!... and again as soon as I have the chart printed.. (as we don't have the dyno) I will post it for you.... We also did watch timing and believe it or not logged timing! We compared the timing charts with the baseline logs and there was no change.. ALSO! We have a set of "knock ears" that we bolt to the motor and it amplify's the noise in the engine and you can listed for knock through headphones... Oh and in case that is not enough I also monitored the knock sender voltages...... Just fine..

The Lexus ecu seems to have a uncanny ability to adapt to changes. The mass air flow sensor seems to be larger than they needed.. So this allows more air to enter the engine with out the mass air maxing out at 5 volts. Most GM and German cars max out the mass air flow sensor with very little modding.

:cool:

^^^^^
That's what I would expect from a reputable fabricator like Andy. Keep up the good work. I'm excited to see what comes of your S/C application. I know...I know; one step at a time. I have patience, and I'd rather you take your time anyway and get it right, than to rush and miss something.

I'll keep watching.

since you know it all, the reason you must tune when installing a cam is because the cam changes the valve lift and duration so the ecu needs to know those things to keep up on the fuel injection. simply changing air flow does not make a tune a must, sure it will gain more power, but as long as everything is close the car isnt going to explode.



Get the sand out of your vag first. You dont need to lecture me on the cam. And actually to correct your statement, you "dont tell the ECU the cam setting." Did you see that in your video games you are playing? Intake, cams and even increase in valve size all increase flow. The ECU has no idea what size valve or what duration cam you have in your car. When any of those changes are done it is likely that the increase in airflow will lean certain parts of the power band requiring a change in fuel and also change in timing as well based on knock detection.

I am the last person that you want to argue about modifications. I own a 3.4L stroker supra fully race built with a 76gts turbo making 952whp on 36psi. I got this car stock in 2005 and have been intimately involved in every aspect of the built. I have limited the power on purpose with the 76mm turbo since i want to minimize lag. However, the engine itself is built for 1200+whp.








http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n35/ssoleymani/Cars/sideshot1.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n35/ssoleymani/Cars/rearview.jpg
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http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n35/ssoleymani/Cars/supra2-1.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n35/ssoleymani/Cars/76gts32vs35psi.jpg

Alpha - Nice house. That Supra's alright too ;)

alpha, That supra is pretty nice! I have built a few in my day, being that I started at Sound Performance. Any way sounds like you know what you are talking about! Love the supra! Any interest in an even better spooling turbo on that thing! I can get you a PTE billet 67 for $950 plus shipping! We made 844whp on 31 psi on a much more stock setup! I think you could make about 900whp at 34 psi, with a MUCH faster spool! Let me know what you think!

alpha, That supra is pretty nice! I have built a few in my day, being that I started at Sound Performance. Any way sounds like you know what you are talking about! Love the supra! Any interest in an even better spooling turbo on that thing! I can get you a PTE billet 67 for $950 plus shipping! We made 844whp on 31 psi on a much more stock setup! I think you could make about 900whp at 34 psi, with a MUCH faster spool! Let me know what you think!



Thanks for the compliments buddy. I am assuming you are talking about the 6765:) I have looked into it except that 844whp seems like it has not been repeated. That exact same 844whp has been mentioned in the "PTE6765 thread" that is 15 pages long on supraforums and no one seems to be able to make that much. I am well aware of Evos making 900whp, but those cars are running 50+psi which is not feasible in a daily driven supra. I have spoken to Larry a few times and he says the same.

One of the guys with a 3.4L stroker and not as well of a flowing head as mine just did 820whp at 29psi. It seems to run out of steam in a supra somewhere around 850whp. My head was done at www.enginelogics.com in TX and intake flow 301cfm at 0.400" lift with a 345 ft/sec port velocity which is pretty stout. Before the 76GTS i had a 71DBB and it ran out of steam at 28psi. Of course at 28psi i was making the power i was making at 35psi when the car was stock.


The car actually spools even faster than the dyno you see above. The spool comes on so fast and hard that Justin Nenni had to change the tune to purposely spool late so the car makes the power later so we dont spin on the dyno. We had four straps, and three fat guys sitting in the trunk and back and the moment spool hit, the tires would just go up in smoke. In the AEM logs it shows that i make positive boost at 3050rpm, 16psi by 3900rpm and 26psi by 4500rpm. It literally goes from 16 to 26psi in about 500rpms. Even with DR i have no traction in 1st or 2nd at all. Justin Nenni tune the car very conservatively and made 605whp at 16psi with only 16degrees of timing. We did a run of 654whp on 17psi, but he said why risk it running it like that on pump gas daily. Most people are in the low to mid 500s pushing 18psi. So 605whp at 16psi is solid, and if i really wanna kick ass then put some C16 and turn it up.


I am glad to hear Andy that you came from Sound Performance. It gives me confidence that you know what the hell you are doing. I really like to see the comparison between Sikkys and your headers. Hopefully you guys will come out ahead and hell if you dont, you always retrace your steps and find out how to improve. Good luck.

Yeah I heard that people are having trouble meeting that power.. It wierd to me because the car made it so easily. The only thing I can think of is the fact that its on E85, which in my experience makes a bit more power over gas.

Evening folks, i figured i'd quickly introduce myself in this thread:

My name is Chase and recently i have been working with Elite on a number of projects including future header design. I have a degree in mechanical engineering from the University of Minnesota, as well as 3 years FormulaSAE experience, and 1 year of composites (carbon fiber) and mold making. I hope to bring a lot to the table for Elite.

I have identified strong and weak points in the design and we've already begun work to squeeze even more power out of the design. Expect good things from products that are backed by knowledge and experience. We're all going to be learning a lot as we go along, and making some serious gains to these already powerful cars.

Take care,
Chase

^^^Awesome. That is great to hear :)

Great numbers Andy. I'm just curious were these runs done in shoot out mode? Also is it final that during the header install does the engine have to come out?

Evening folks, i figured i'd quickly introduce myself in this thread:

My name is Chase and recently i have been working with Elite on a number of projects including future header design. I have a degree in mechanical engineering from the University of Minnesota, as well as 3 years FormulaSAE experience, and 1 year of composites (carbon fiber) and mold making. I hope to bring a lot to the table for Elite.

I have identified strong and weak points in the design and we've already begun work to squeeze even more power out of the design. Expect good things from products that are backed by knowledge and experience. We're all going to be learning a lot as we go along, and making some serious gains to these already powerful cars.

Take care,
Chase


Hey Chase how are the headers progressing?

Hey Chase how are the headers progressing?

I believe they are on hold while they work on the supercharger.

Sick Supra and GREAT PLATE hahaha.

I believe they are on hold while they work on the supercharger.

There is one set done, they are on my car. Elite is waiting for the sikky headers to test them back to back and then they are finishing up my supercharger kit. After that im sure you will see there headers go into mass production. :D

There is one set done, they are on my car. Elite is waiting for the sikky headers to test them back to back and then they are finishing up my supercharger kit. After that im sure you will see there headers go into mass production. :D

I can't imagine being without my car for as long as you have but I'm sure once you get it back you wont stop smiling :D

Any updates?

Yes! I will get some pics up asap!!

Any updates?

Hey Andy are your Headers step design? From the pics of them they looked stepped?

No the current design is not stepped.

No the current design is not stepped.

Andy when do you anticipate the final release for the headers?

I would be willing to take pre-orders, but production will not start for at LEAST 1-2 months. We are very backed up right now and the supercharger is at the top of the list. If you would like to get on a pre order list I would be willing to take some money down to save you a spot at the top of the list for the headers.

Thanks,
Andy

Thanks Andy I'll be contacting you sometime in Oct to drop a deposit down. Also will there be a chance of redynoing it after ceramic coating them? Would it make any difference?

Hi guys,

Any chance of headers to suit RHD.? if so , id def take a set, if these are made like everything you guys do then i dare say the quality will be better then other sets out there at the moment.?

Quality will be great! A RHD Set is not likely.

so any more vehicles with your headers to compare numbers? or is the sikky headers the way to go?

Our headers will be the way to go! 304SS and all TIG welded!! Give me some time and they will be ready, and WORTH the wait!

Our headers will be the way to go! 304SS and all TIG welded!! Give me some time and they will be ready, and WORTH the wait!

Will the HP gains be comparable or superior to sikky's?

Will the HP gains be comparable or superior to sikky's?

They will be very comparable if not equal or better. That being said they have shown some numbers on here for the ones that are on my car IIRC.

so any more vehicles with your headers to compare numbers? or is the sikky headers the way to go?

Sikky all the way. Don't listen to the haters. If you want power now then get a set of sikky headers.

Sikky all the way. Don't listen to the haters. If you want power now then get a set of sikky headers.

Seriously go somewhere else, no one in this thread has bashed or hated on sikky this thread has just been about facts. as stated by elite and sikky (concerning price and parts in the kit).

I just wanted to sit and see how the sikky headers have performed in the real world. I know several members have posted fit an finish quality and performance issues for the sikky headers. Also I'm willing to wait to see what Elite has to offer. Then I would consider the best headers for me.

Same here...

Man this 10 character minimum can get annoying lol

Any updates?

I'm in on this header setup; I like what I am hearing!

I just checked the Elite website and the headers are on pre-order for $1695.00. A couple of hundred dollars more then Sikky's. Andy when are you expecting the final release and will you post up horsepower gains?

bump up...

bump for updates

Newb here... Just wanted to see if these are still going to come to fruition or have they gone the way of the dinosaur? Looking to get headers in the next 4-6 weeks.

Elite posted in an earlier thread they are working on Splat's supercharger first then headers next. They said they have to have Splat's car done by end of February. If you are purchasing in the next 4-6 weeks. I'd say you may have to look at either PPE or Sikky.

How is the supercharger coming along? Also how about the headers?